there's this particular raked home game in my city which organizes games regularly. one thing i dislike about the game is that the co-host which also happens to be the dealer, continuously ask players for tips after they take down a huge pot. towards players he is acquainted with, he would blatantly go "ahem.. tips"... and towards players he is not so acquainted with, he would repeatedly say "nice hand"..
very often, people will say it is mandatory to tip when u take down a big pot, especially after a suck-out.. and the hosts thinks that its his prerogative to be tipped (even though he sometimes overrakes)...
generally i would tip most dealers who conducts the game professionally, ie deal fast, do not discuss hands while cards are still in play, announces the action, ie doing what a dealer oughts to do.. but stingy when dealers are douchebags..
the minimum chip on the table is $5 so thats the minimum you give the dealer each time u decide to tip.. just wanted to find out how do you guys deal with such people..
there are a bunch of other live games in my town without such problems. but the thhing is, this particular game has a bunch of old passives, fishes, and ego players which makes the field perfect for me.. and best of all.. those who buy in deep are the worst players on the table..
its 5/5.. actually its not about tipping the dealer.. its about him irritating the crap out of me by asking for tips everytime i take down a pot.. i mean i would tip naturally but u don't ask me for it.. ever.. whether anyone tips the dealer or not is up to the dealer to influence..
comon.. he's getting paid 20/hr already.. and its not like he's good by my standards.. i would be happy to tip the dealer more if he focuses on dealing well and be tactful towards the players..
For the future, this is a good type of post for the Brick and Mortar forum, rather than live low stakes NL. Low stakes NL is generally considered a strategy forum.
I would mention out loud that the dealer should not be requesting tips, and that I won't be giving tips until he stops hassling for them. But I'm more used to a casino environment where that's just to be expected. Home games are often a little more lax concerning etiquette from the staff, so it's a tough spot.
there's this particular raked home game in my city which organizes games regularly. one thing i dislike about the game is that the co-host which also happens to be the dealer, continuously ask players for tips after they take down a huge pot.
If you're playing a raked game and they hire a professional dealer, tipping is fine. If the host of the game is dealing, however, he's already taking a metric buttload of cash off the table via rake. His "occasional" overraking makes it even worse. I see no need to tip at all in this situation, and I find begging for tips to be unprofessional and greedy.
If you continue playing in this game, pay very close attention to how much money comes off the table over the course of an hour. You'll be surprised how much it is, especially if the host is overraking. Are the fishy players really making up for it (compared to the other games in town)? If this is a business for you, that's the basis for your decision. If this is recreation, then it's pretty clear that the host is annoying the crap out of you, and I would just look for another game.
After 3 hours, there was close to $2000 in rake. Yes they put it out for you to see, how ingenious. Then again, there were many big pots within that short span of 3 hours albeit its quite an indecent figure.
Playing ABC poker will make my sessions very profitable if I run well - hitting sets and draws with implied odds etc... but there's almost zero fold equity. There's at least 7 ppl to the flop 50% of the time and they almost always donkbets strong hands/call you down light/overplay pp/can't fold flushes and straights on paired boards etc.. they don't seem a bit intelligent and i don't know where these gangster-looking mid-40s get their money from. so you tell me if it sounds profitable to you? lol
Just to answer your question eneely, there are a few hosts who already know one another so they have more contacts and can keep a healthy pool of players standing by so that the game is full ring throughout the entire session. Happens one of the co-hosts just want easy money by dealing cos the players tip insane amounts - to the point he thinks being tipped is his entitlement.
FWIW, using $1 coins from your pocket will make you look more like a stingy douche on the table than choosing just not to tip outright. At this particular game, i prefer to tip at the end of the session since the other donks just lock up insane amount of money with the dealers' tips ($50 tip for every $500-$1000 pot taken down, which usually happens at least once to twice every orbit). There was even once the dealer's total tips for the night was more than the total rake collected. Of course she was a girl.
Last edited by amortization; 05-20-2010 at 01:06 PM.
so you tell me if it sounds profitable to you? lol
No, it doesn't sound profitable. There are plenty of soft 5/5 games that don't cost you $75/hour to sit plus mandatory $5 tipping. That's about 23 BB/100 in rake alone, there is no way you can overcome that long term. By comparison online poker costs you about 3.5 BB/100 in rake. Do you record your live sessions? If so please post back here in a year and update us with what your hourly rate ended up being.
Did it not occur to you that "over raking" is stealing from you? If you bought a meal and they ran your credit card through twice on purpose you would be outraged. Next time you catch them doing that to your pot break the dealers arm.
I see more than a mild difference between $210/hr and $650/hr, but then math was never one of my strong suits.
Oh wait, yes it was.
I guess tips don't leave the table to get $210/hour. I keep forgetting the tip money is magic and doesn't have an impact on the cash on the table and sustainability of the game when it goes to a non-player.
I certainly see the difference in rates -- but you asked where they find people willing to pay those rakes. I answered: The same places casinos do.
There's plenty of non-US casinos raking 10% or more per pot, often uncapped!. And there's no shortage of people willing to play in those games. Those sort of rakes likely reach the $2000 in three hours the OP mentioned -- although I suspect there's some hyperbole in his post...
The OP's game's smallest chip is $5, and the game is 5/5NL. Since a 3/6LHE game can have $250+ an hour leave it at a B&M game and still have an endless supply of suckers^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hplayers at it, I imagine a 5/5NL can support that rate in much the same way. It's possibly even a smaller rake when expressed as a percentage. He mentions a $50 rake on a $500-$1000 pot -- which means the game has $1000 pots. The $55 lost there (rake+tip) is in the 5-10% range. That's just like losing $6 on an $80 pot at 3/6LHE.
[Game sounds like 10%-max 50, 5/5NL with plenty of action. It's comparable to many B&M games in not-Las Vegas.]
It looked like you were comparing a rate that was not inclusive of an excessively high toke rate, to a rate that included both rake and toke over a longer period of time. But then, reading comprehension was never one of my strong suits.
Oh wait, yes it was.
Yes, some people are willing to pay a little bit in a casino, and some people are willing to pay significantly more at a home game. It doesn't follow that these are the same groups of people, or that the sustainability of one is an indicator of the sustainability of the other.
This guy is a total clown and should cease this behavior. Someone (OP perhaps?) needs to speak up and tell him that if this is a raked game of which he is the beneficiary, he can't be pressuring people to do something voluntary. They'll tip if they want. I'm sure he's making out fine regardless.
BTW, if he thinks he's upping his tips by keeping whites off the table, he's a fool. He'd be better off giving everyone white chips to tip with; he'll still get reds for the bigger pots.