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How to handle possible stack lifting? (Kinda long) How to handle possible stack lifting? (Kinda long)

01-18-2013 , 09:59 AM
Played in a home game last night and while I knew the host and a few others, it isn't my regular game.

We were 9 deep, crammed around an 8 person octagon table so space was an issue.

I bought in for $100 and was given about $25 in our $5 chip and the player to my immediate right bought in for $40 or $60 with about $20 in the $5 chip.

Anyways after about 45 minutes or so I had won a few small pots had upped my stack to roughly $120-125.

The player to my right had been largely inactive and I hadn't noticed much change to his stack.

About an hour and a half in we took a collective smoke break and headed outside, and a short while after we returned I noticed I only had a little more then my starting stack at $103 or so.

I kept counting and recounting my stack and tried to think if I had lost any hands recently and honestly couldn't remember any significant action on my part as I had been mostly card dead.

Then I looked over to my right and noticed the player was up about $20 in his $5 stack from what he received on his buy in and I couldn't remember any big hands for him at all.

Afterwards, before I would leave the table I would count my stack and then place my chip protector on top of my large denomination chips and just in general kept a good eye on the guy to my right.

He ended up cashing out about an hour later and went home up roughly $20-30.

At the end of the game, I pulled the host aside and just told him what I saw/felt happened.

At the end of the day it's my fault for not protecting my chips, but I didn't expect it to happen in a home game with friends. I didn't even know for sure that anything had happened, but I wanted him to know.

He said thanks, and said he probably just wouldn't invite the guy back as he didn't know him that well anyways.

Still I felt awkward telling the host that I thought someone he hung out with at least in some capacity was possibly lifting chips, especially since I wasn't %100 sure it happened, only %80 sure. It felt dirty, saying "hey this guy you know and invited into your home, he's stealing" especially being new to his game.

Did I handle the situation correctly?
What could I have done differently?
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01-18-2013 , 11:56 AM
Your gut was probably right. Had you been drinking? If so, maybe you overlooked something? I think you handled it right. I don't think calling the guy out would have done anything because he would of just denied it.

I would definitely want one of my players to tell me as the host if they even suspected anything. Then I could keep a close eye on that player.
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01-18-2013 , 12:21 PM
This is uncommon in a long running game that players know each other well. In games with semi strangers this can happen once in a while, but still not often. It is likely that you were wrong (miscounted maybe) but the evidence is enough to take the host aside and air your suspicions so he (and you can watch). You are right not to directly confront with weak evidence. Watch the guy and count and cap your stack from now on. If he sees you counting and capping he is less likely to attack your stack again (If he did) Sneak thieves generally prefer easy safer targets.
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01-18-2013 , 01:01 PM
I wasn't drinking. I tend to stay away from drinking at the table and I knew I had to work this morning so being hungover and no sleep was definitely not happening.

Most of the players were well established friends, and "regular's" but this guy wasn't.

In fact I wasn't sure I was going to say anything because I was unsure, until one of the other guys asked the Host how he knew the player I suspected stole chips. The guy was someone he knew from one of the bars he frequents. So not a real friend but rather an acquaintance that was interested in playing.

Anyways, I can't be 100% certain only because I didn't have an exact count of my chips when it happened. However, I'm pretty aware of both my stack and the opponents on my immediate left and right because it's useful in games. That's why I kept counting my stack over and over.

Lesson learned though, if there are any unknowns in the game I will be more vigilant with protecting myself. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't crossing a line by telling the host about my suspicions without complete certainty.
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01-18-2013 , 02:36 PM
absolutely correct to talk to host. he may have a collection of other quietly-reported suspicions to add to yours. Sounds like he already had a bad feeling about the guy.

waiting for proof of cheating doesn't really work well. You pretty much have to let the guy cheat repeatedly before you have an airtight case, and then everyone will be upset that you let the guy get away with it for so long. Plus, it's really awkward to unwind all those bad bets.

Fortunately, most cheaters seem to make themselves unwelcome in other ways long before proof of the actual cheating is necessary.
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01-19-2013 , 01:37 PM
Just an update on the situation. The host just informed me that at least one other player had suspicions of their own for the player. So based off that the player in suspect is no longer going to be invited.

I regret waiting now, maybe if I had pulled the host aside as soon as I suspected something it would have prevented others from losing chips.
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01-20-2013 , 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckduck53
Just an update on the situation. The host just informed me that at least one other player had suspicions of their own for the player. So based off that the player in suspect is no longer going to be invited.

I regret waiting now, maybe if I had pulled the host aside as soon as I suspected something it would have prevented others from losing chips.
The one thing I'D talk to the host about... is whether security is needed for the break-times, if 'strangers' are getting invited....

And, perhaps, a better job on his screening process?

Too bad you ran into this, potentially. At least it wasn't a huge loss and it seems as if he's been squashed, for this group at least.

Overall: an 'A' on how you handled it.
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01-21-2013 , 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottery Larry
The one thing I'D talk to the host about... is whether security is needed for the break-times, if 'strangers' are getting invited....

And, perhaps, a better job on his screening process?

Too bad you ran into this, potentially. At least it wasn't a huge loss and it seems as if he's been squashed, for this group at least.

Overall: an 'A' on how you handled it.
Yeah, in our home game we don't leave players alone in the room with the chips. Easier for us because we're husband/wife so one of us gets to socialize/eat while the other casually sits in the basement and then we trade off.
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01-22-2013 , 12:35 PM
Always count your chips before taking a break. Then at least you are 100% sure.
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01-24-2013 , 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace8off
Always count your chips before taking a break. Then at least you are 100% sure.
This.

I lost 10k in a MTT during a color up at Trop in AC. I was dead sure, but got nowhere. Now I always always count when I get up.

In a home game like that, I bought 120 in chips off a guy, 2 hands later I double up, to like 128. Im like wtf! He playes dumb and its a regulars tournament league in which I am newest guest. He basically whored me, but game was so soft, I just smiled and played on.
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01-25-2013 , 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinaAttaks2010
This.

I lost 10k in a MTT during a color up at Trop in AC. I was dead sure, but got nowhere. Now I always always count when I get up.

In a home game like that, I bought 120 in chips off a guy, 2 hands later I double up, to like 128. Im like wtf! He playes dumb and its a regulars tournament league in which I am newest guest. He basically whored me, but game was so soft, I just smiled and played on.
How does "this" help? Unless everyone counts their stack, it is your word against everyone else. You say you are missing chips? Who took them? How do you prove it?
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01-31-2013 , 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eneely
How does "this" help? Unless everyone counts their stack, it is your word against everyone else. You say you are missing chips? Who took them? How do you prove it?
I don't know how helpful it is to count but it's better than not. I always do, and I count the stacks of the people to my left and right. I've had it happen (only one time) where the guy to my right obviously had grabbed one of my $5k chips when we were on break in a tourney. I went to the floor and asked them to look at the cameras, but they pretty much blew me off. Fortunately, still chopped but now I hover around the table in rooms that let you, and make a really big show of doing a chip count before leaving if I'm forced to leave the room.
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02-06-2013 , 06:19 PM
I've been in a situation like this, and it's best to use a little poker skills to try to gain extra information on your suspect.

I had this friend who attended my home games, and I know him as a cheap, angle-shooting bastard. Once was close to catching him cheating on the deal, but let it go. But one night we had a tournament, and after the tournament I noticed a 100 denom chip missing. I asked everyone to look around for it, lift up chairs, look under table. And as they couldn't find it I knew someone pocketed it.

After I knew someone had it and it wasn't just "lost." I started saying to everyone, as a joke, that I was going to search their pockets and they couldn't leave until I found it. That's when I noticed the kid next to me start to get uncomfortable sitting in his chair. I decided to focus on him while everyone kept looking for the chip. Then, I saw the kid start acting like he was looking around, he reached into his pocket turned to look around his chair and then extended his arm and dropped something on the chair next to him. After I saw this I walked over to the chair and saw the chip! Immediately, I grabbed the chip and asked the person sitting there if they saw it, they said no. I didn't want to embarrass the kid in front of everyone, which I SHOULD have. Instead, I later called him and told him he wasn't allowed to come back because I saw him attempt to steal a tournament chip. If he would have apologized I would have just banned him for a few weeks, but he gave me two different goofy answers.

Bogus answer # 1. It was on the guys chair the whole time.

I told him I saw him grab it.

Bogus answer # 2. It was under his chair and he put it on Mike's chair as a joke, to make it seem like he was the one who took it.

I've known the kid since Middle School and he's always been kind of a douche, this was the last straw. So, he's not invited to my poker league.
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02-11-2013 , 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckduck53
Just an update on the situation. The host just informed me that at least one other player had suspicions of their own for the player. So based off that the player in suspect is no longer going to be invited.

I regret waiting now, maybe if I had pulled the host aside as soon as I suspected something it would have prevented others from losing chips.
Glad that worked out man and that he won't be invited back. That is not cool.
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