A weekly home game I play in ~ 65% of the time.

Players A and B are both professional dealers sitting next to each other. It is uncommon for them both to be playing in this game as one or the other is usually dealing, almost always A.

We three see a flop which contains a FD and an OESD. I have the OESD.

Player A bets, player B raises, and I fold. A calls, and they check it down, telling each other what they have before the board runs out. A has a made hand—2 pair, iirc—and B states he is on a draw.

I cry foul and tell them they can't bet me out of the hand, then check it down.

B says: A and I always soft play, so get used to it.

A admits that if I call B's raise, then he is re-raising. (I would have called the original bet if B doesn't raise.)

Think I have a legitimate beef? Or am I just making a mountain out of a molehill?


--klez

They can, they just can't admit to it during or after the hand is over.

Based on that, I'd decide if they are bad enough for you to want to keep them in the game or tell the host about it so they are not allowed to play at the same table anymore. In the highly unlikely case that they are really good players, I'd talk to a couple other guys in the game and then approach the host together in order to not allow for them to play at all.

I cannot for the life of me see how either of them fouled before you cried foul.

I wouldn't play any time these two players are both in the game. Soft-playing is bad enough, doing it openly is grounds for me leaving the game entirely.

Yeah, this happened a couple of weeks ago, trying to remember exactly what set me off.

They may have verbally agreed to check it down once I folded, but I wasn't sure so I left it out of the description of the incident. Or maybe it was just them instantly telling each other what they had as soon as I folded.

On flop, A bet $10, B raised to $25, and I folded. B is a solid winning player at 1/2-2/5.His bet—supposedly with a draw—doesn't really make any sense to me except as a way to get me out of the hand so he can see 2 cards cheaply. That's what pissed me off.

And B's response when I called him on it.

Thanks


--klez

You have a legitimate beef. Unfortunately, it's a part of some home poker game crowds. Fortunately, you can take advantage of the situation, even if you can't stop it.

I'm slightly less angry when it's out in the open, than when it's silent.

I know I may be getting called/raised light, as my opponents may be acting with the intention of free cards on future streets. I can adjust.

I know I may be getting 2:1 on some bets/calls. I can adjust.

I've played with the 'check it down regs' in a casino. I adjust.

These guys are looking to reduce variance. They aren't looking to make big calls, bluff or stack off with less than a big hand. I'm raising instead of limping sometimes, and I'm 3-bet raising a lot more. Be careful though. Only when it's those 2 guys. Sometimes they will have a hand. They will adjust as well, be on the lookout.

You can't really do anything about *******s who soft-play each other to the end. They exist all over the poker landscape and aren't going anywhere. All you can do is adjust.

But then there's this:

Of course, they didn't actually do it during this hand, so these are just words, but doing this is outright cheating.

Personally, I think it's up to the host to handle it. This kind of stuff should not be allowed in any well-run game. Go to the host first and see if there are any remedies. If not, you have a few options:

1. Play back with the knowledge that they're whipsawing you. I don't really advise this because they're decent players, from your description. But with bad players who cheat like this, they're actually throwing away twice as much money, so collect it and be happy.

2. Call them out on it at every opportunity. Every hand they're in together, call their actions what they are. "Oh, here we go, Team Cheat is going to raise again." Make sure every other player at the table knows they're cheaters who play as a team. This will make it a lot harder for them to get away with it, and other players may get upset and speak up too. This option kinda borders on fomenting a mutiny. If the host has their back, you may get yourself uninvited. It may instead be better to …

3. Vote with your feet. Refuse to play in a game where the host allows players to cheat. This is the simplest and most effective option.

While I kind of understand this behavior in a casino (but still don't condone it), I really don't understand it in a "friendly" home game. They're softplaying each other because they're friends? But isn't everyone supposed to be friends here?

I play in home games with people who aren't friends.

Deal with it or leave the game. It is easier to deal with this when it is done openly certainly. If you just can not abide this kind of "partner poker" then you should quit and tell the host why. He might not care or he might take some action. You don't lose whichever way the host moves on this.

Yeah, some of my crew are actually friends and others I have nothing to do with except the weekly game. Still I consider it a " friendly" game.

Yeah, I plan on not playing there much anymore.

I found it very surprising that two pro dealers think what they are doing is just fine.

The local casino games are much softer than this home game; going there from now on.

Thanks for all the responses,


--klez

I don't find it surprising. Unethical people exist in all walks of life. They've probably seen people get away with this type of behavior over and over again in their jobs. Now they think they're being clever by tapping into an advantage that other people don't have the sense/knowledge/courage/whatever to use.

Meanwhile, their home-game crowd just shrunk by at least one player, and will probably keep shrinking until they can't find a game—as a team or individually.

I recommend you tell the host of that game why you won't be playing there much anymore, BTW. Hosts like to know about this kind of stuff, and it may eventually result in Team Cheat being banned and the game being good again.