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Old 11-06-2017, 08:55 PM   #1
Protross
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Calling the Clock Ruling

At a home game, but just looking for what you think the most common ruling would be as their was no specific rule for this game causing lots of confusion.

A player in a heads up pot is facing a $250 bet on the turn with the effective stack being around $700. After quite a bit of tanking, another player at the table (not in the hand) calls the clock. The floor counts down the clock and right before he gets to 0, the player announces raise, then takes another 20 seconds before deciding on a sizing (600) and making the action.

Should:

A. Hand should be dead since he didn't complete an action prior to clock running out
B. Raise should stand and other player has a decision
C. Player should be forced to min raise since he announced raise, but didn't specify amount
D. Another option?
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:42 PM   #2
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protross View Post
At a home game, but just looking for what you think the most common ruling would be as their was no specific rule for this game causing lots of confusion.

A player in a heads up pot is facing a $250 bet on the turn with the effective stack being around $700. After quite a bit of tanking, another player at the table (not in the hand) calls the clock. The floor counts down the clock and right before he gets to 0, the player announces raise, then takes another 20 seconds before deciding on a sizing (600) and making the action.

Should:

A. Hand should be dead since he didn't complete an action prior to clock running out
B. Raise should stand and other player has a decision
C. Player should be forced to min raise since he announced raise, but didn't specify amount
D. Another option?
B. But if he doesn't complete the raise almost immediately I'm putting a short clock on him (10 seconds). If that gets counted down its a min raise.
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:49 PM   #3
steamraise
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

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Originally Posted by Protross View Post

C. Player should be forced to min raise since he announced raise, but didn't specify amount
I like this.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:23 PM   #4
DCJ001
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

C.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:13 PM   #5
albedoa
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

I don't like (C) because it might not have been clear, or been made clear, what it means to "act" before the time runs out. I'm actually not sure what would happen in a casino, but if the instructions are clear then (C) is fine.

I like psandman's line.
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Old 11-07-2017, 01:07 AM   #6
Jimulacrum
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

Let the guy pick his raise size. He took an action before the timer ran out.

Unless this is some kind of habitual issue that's really causing problems, it's not worth taking a hard line about it.
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Old 11-07-2017, 08:56 AM   #7
Bene Gesserit
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

Pretty serious "home game" here. Fairly large stakes for a "home game" too. And a home game with a floor? Sounds more like an underground room in a home. I would prefer option B most of the time. If this player habitually tanks and delays then the " floor" should" give him some encouragement.
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:07 AM   #8
eneely
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

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Originally Posted by Bene Gesserit View Post
Pretty serious "home game" here. Fairly large stakes for a "home game" too. And a home game with a floor? Sounds more like an underground room in a home.
Let’s face it, this forum is no longer about home poker, in most of the posts. Euphemisms like “Home Game” to mean an illegal card room have become one of the alternative facts around here.

Our moderators have jumped ship, it seems. I can’t blame them, since I jumped ship not too long before.
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Old 11-07-2017, 01:06 PM   #9
Bene Gesserit
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

I guess so. I really don't find it too annoying. Some of the questions about underground home games have some relevance to friendly groups. I just would like to have some kind of way to tell , but maybe it does not matter too much. This particular post was such an open giveaway , but many others are more unclear. Again a lot of the time it doesn't really matter what kind of home game it really is since the subject matter relates both ways.
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Old 11-07-2017, 03:29 PM   #10
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

I'm the only one who likes "A. Hand should be dead since he didn't complete an action prior to clock running out."???

FLOOR: 5...4...3...2...

PLAYER: Raise. (puts out call, settles back in his chair to think some more)

FLOOR: (who had stopped counting about 5-10 seconds ago) Hand is dead. Push the pot.

PLAYER: What??? I said 'raise'!

FLOOR: That does not grant you an extension.

(or...)

FLOOR: Am I still waiting on you to do something? Then your hand's dead.

(or...)

FLOOR: You can ask the ump for 'time', but he doesn't have to grant it.

(or...)

FLOOR: and how much longer do you want us to wait on you? We had already waited so long that someone made bold to call the clock on you; then we counted down another minute; and when warned of the consequences, you STILL couldn't complete your action in a timely manner. Next hand!

PLAYER: But I said 'raise' before you got to zero!

FLOOR: That would be good enough in basketball--you got the shot off, the horn sounded, and if we have to wait an hour for the ball to come down, we will--but this ain't basketball!
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Old 11-07-2017, 08:09 PM   #11
Rawlz517
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman View Post
B. But if he doesn't complete the raise almost immediately I'm putting a short clock on him (10 seconds). If that gets counted down its a min raise.
This. Forcing a minraise or killing the hand is just looking for a way to be a jerk as the floor.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:11 PM   #12
youtalkfunny
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

No, it's looking for a way to consistently apply the rules.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:53 PM   #13
BigBlue56
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

Unsure what the casino ruling would have been. Seems a more appropriate place to get an answer for this particular game. Yes, I know it's been moved from there.

I don't think I've ever thought of a spot where a player has the clock called and has more than 2 decisions (fold/call).

Quote:
A. Hand should be dead since he didn't complete an action prior to clock running out
B. Raise should stand and other player has a decision
C. Player should be forced to min raise since he announced raise, but didn't specify amount
D. Another option?
A - Hate that option.
B - If player was given that time, then the raise should stand. My favorite choice AP.
C - I think this may be the best option to plan for, but should also be included in the warnings given as the clock starts and counts down. If I'm putting rule on the books, this would be it.
D - I can't come up with a better option than C.


I can't come up with many scenarios where a player would have to tank long enough to get a clock, and still have the raise amount as any reasonable decision. I'm thinking that they player is just a d-bag and I'd like to hold them to a min-raise to move things along.
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:46 PM   #14
sw_emigre
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

No way I'd kill the hand after he said Raise. Though this kinda sounds like a terrible game (at least a terrible hand) that would be greatly improved if YTF was dealing.
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Old 11-09-2017, 11:29 AM   #15
madlex
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

Quote:
Originally Posted by youtalkfunny View Post
No, it's looking for a way to consistently apply the rules.
But what rule exactly? The floor tells a player how much time he has to act. So we're looking for a rule that says announcing "raise" is not an action if the word is not immediately followed by an amount.

Following your argument, a player could announce "raise" when action gets to him and then do nothing. Eventually his hand will be killed but he doesn't have to put any money in the pot. Doesn't sound right to me? Or are you saying his hand should be killed and he has to put in a minraise?

I like psandman's approach here.
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Old 11-09-2017, 06:46 PM   #16
Delbertt
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

B.
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Old 11-12-2017, 02:09 AM   #17
jzpiano
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

Quote:
Originally Posted by eneely View Post
Let’s face it, this forum is no longer about home poker, in most of the posts. Euphemisms like “Home Game” to mean an illegal card room have become one of the alternative facts around here.

Our moderators have jumped ship, it seems. I can’t blame them, since I jumped ship not too long before.
Just spoke to both this week oddly enougb
Not a lot of activity in the forum anymore so they aren't around much. I've felt the same way mostly due to threads like this and mostly moved over the PCF which is a lot more about home games. Sorry state of affairs here.


To the OP. Give him some time to figure out his raise, if it takes more than 30 seconds I'm telling him he's getting a shorter countdown coming soon. In a real home game among friends, no one calls the clock.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:03 AM   #18
Bene Gesserit
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

PCF is which forum?
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Old 11-12-2017, 08:23 PM   #19
sw_emigre
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

PCF: Personal Chip Fund. It's what I insist all my home game attendees pay into at least once per night.

(OK I have no idea either.)

IMO we do a reasonable job of self-policing, esp compared to a whole lotta forums on 2p2. Sure, many threads need clarification about what type of home game we're really talking about, but among the regulars here we prob have 4-5 "table captain" types, so even with a weak dealer we can keep the action moving.
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:46 AM   #20
jzpiano
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene Gesserit View Post
PCF is which forum?
Poker Chip Forum
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Old 11-16-2017, 05:41 PM   #21
darthEez
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

Yeah some good convos over there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 11-20-2017, 02:16 PM   #22
DrStrange
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Re: Calling the Clock Ruling

This seems like a big decision, one worthy of some thought. It is not clear what "quite a bit of tanking" is - a three minute wait is different from 30 seconds. The meta-story should be a huge part of the host's decision making.

We don't know the back story. Is Hero commonly Hollywooding during sessions? Is this player new to the game or is he/she a regular? Are there other issues between the floor and the player or the player calling clock and Hero? Is Hero a PITA other ways other times?

The decision on how much to raise is not a matter worthy of so much thought for an experienced player. All-in is less than a pot sized bet. I am sympathetic towards a quick second clock vs a Hero with a bad history or a Hero who is experienced.

I would never kill Hero's hand here, he made a decision in time. I would not enforce a min-raise without a warning plus second countdown. I would allow significant slack for an inexperienced Hero.

Host/floor also has some issues to work out after the hand is over. Maybe there are some personality problems to consider. Maybe Hero needs some coaching to limit his excessive use of time. Maybe the rest of the table needs to cut Hero some slack as he gather's his courage playing in a bigger game.

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