Long running (6+years) .25-.50 NLH homegame. Long time familiarities between most of us. Several players regularly muck their cards out of turn to go out to the deck to smoke, or BR, or snack table. I know that it is not in line with the rules for them to do this, but I (the host) don't say much to them about it. In fact I think it is an advantage to me when they do this! Does this "problem" exist in your games, is there a pressing need to stop it, what do you do?? Thanks!

This is a standard issue in a lot of small stakes games in which I've played, from home games, small tournaments, to bar league tournaments. In my home games, it's generally not an issue (very few smokers, good players, etc), but I absolutely see it in the bar league tournaments I run.

At the end of the day, I don't make a huge deal out of it unless it's a regular occurrence. Then it's a question of whether you can convince the player(s) why it's a bad idea for them do it and if it's worth the effort.

Not a problem at all especially in a home game

it speeds up the game, it keeps the game casual, it caters to fish, and keeps the game fun

the only downside is it is against the rules, and is 95% only a detriment to the offending player

Why complain, if you're going to play a game against someone with the intent to win money, why not let them handicap themselves;
If you're playing purely for the competitive aspect and want to play someone at their best, well complain

This problem doesn't exist in my games because I absolutely put a stop to it. Allowing players to act out of turn, prior to you acting is against the rules for starters. From RRoP -

To retain the right to act, a player must stop the action by calling “time” (or an equivalent word). Failure to stop the action before three or more players have acted behind you may cause you to lose the right to act. You cannot forfeit your right to act if any player in front of you has not acted, only if you fail to act when it legally becomes your turn. Therefore, if you wait for someone whose turn comes before you, and three or more players act behind you, this still does not hinder your right to act.

And if that isn't enough by allowing players to fold whenever they want do you also allow them to bet whenever they want? How is one allowed but not the other?

How do you stop it? Just tell them to wait their turn.


Not sure why some people seem to think that one way to keep a game "fun" is to not follow established rules. IMO, if you want to keep the "fish" happy, and the game fun, you make sure the playing field is as level as possible -which means following established rules.

But it's your game and if you want to modify the rule to make acting out of turn permissable then by all means go for it.

BG didn't offer a lot of detail, but I'm assuming the OP isn't meant to read that every single hand is just a mucking-out-of-turn extravaganza. I have no problem with a player in the hijack stepping away from the table right after looking at his cards even though the action is on the cutoff. If this is a game of regulars, people likely know who smokes. Could he wait his turn? Sure. Is his standing up going to cause the button (who is likely dealing the hand) to act out of turn, then the SB, then the BB? Probably not.

If this was something that happened every hand and several players mucked their cards, out of turn, into the center of the table, then this would be a perfect teaching opportunity. If every 30 minutes, a smoker pushes his hand forward a little bit, gets up, and walks outside, I let it slide. Same with someone who has to use the services. I'm not going to bitch out someone who needs to pee because they didn't wait their turn to act before running to the bathroom. This way they'll get extra time to make certain the wash their hands before returning to the table.

EDIT: I just reread OP and noted "regularly." If that means that this is a habitual problem that truly happens every couple of hands with several players acting out of turn, then it should probably be mentioned and corrected.

I play in Bene's game and yes, many hands are mucking-out-of-turn extravaganzas. On the one hand I certainly don't mind the extra information, and I love the atmosphere (literally: the smoke used to be thick enough my eyes would burn the next day.)

The problem though, is that the smokers are just as casual about returning as they are about leaving and this really slows the game. The times I've timed it, we are only getting about 20 hands an hour.

I'm not really complaining though. Some of the worst offenders are also the biggest donors, and even though I'd like to get more hands in with them, I'd hate to do anything to put them off (or maybe on) their game.

So I'd ask, how do you get casual players to stay in their seats without ticking them off?

Am I missing something. Did you just say you don't mind a player stepping away from the table after he acted? If the action is on the cutoff the action has already passed the hijack.
I don't understand this line of reasoning. Your argument is that knowledge that a player is folding after you doesn't affect your action? Really? You think the only issue is that he will cause someone to act out of turn?

First .... I never buy the "needs to pee" argument. If you need to pee now so badly that you can't wait until the action gets to you, then you probably felt some need to pee before the hand was dealt and could have simply gone then. And why are you looking at your cards if you need to pee so badly. If you have pocket Aces you are willing to piss yourself?

Second what difference does it make that you think mucking your cards into the center of the table is somehow worse then getting up and walking away from the table? Why? either way you are loudly announcing to players HEY EVERYBODY I AM FOLDING OUT OF TURN DON'T WORRY ABOUT ME.


Look if folding out of turn does't matter than position must not matter .... so you shouldn't mind acting first every hand.

Yeah, I'm a dope and said cutoff when I meant under the gun. Mea culpa.

No, I understand the issue of someone folding out of turn potentially affecting the decisions of the players in front of him. This reply was solely in response to Small Fry's quoting of RRoP.

I don't disagree with your other thoughts and I also don't act out of turn. I just don't think isolated incidents of people acting out of turn will cause a complete breakdown of the social order at the poker table. Again, if these are past the point of isolated incidents (as Doug seems to have suggested), then I would be more apt to speak up at the table.

Do you guys stop playing when a smoker gets up? Or do they all take their breaks together? If A, keep playing. If B, put an end to it.

If I'm the host, I'm asking smokers to break one at a time.

on the list of things that people do that they shouldn't, sorted by how much I worry about them, this is way down at the bottom.

If you've got everyone not splashing the pot, shuffling without exposing cards, protecting the muck and keeping the burns separate, not giving away their holdings after they folded, not discussing live hands, not exposing cards to their neighbors, showing down without drama, not damaging the cards, paying attention when it's their turn to act, keeping high-value chips visible, bringing their share of consumables AND telling fresh and funny jokes, THEN you can worry about people folding out of turn, imo.

Yes, it gives away info, but it's not particularly useful info. If they had stood up before getting cards, the hand plays out exactly the same except for some tiny amount of card removal consideration.

No the world won;t crumble from isolated incidents of people acting out of turn. But if we simply accept them ..... and make excuses for them like (well he had to pee) then what happens is that they become more common. If some guy on the button decides he has to fold out of turn because he wants to go smoke..... I don;t propose we beat him to a bloody pulp. I propose we tell him that his behavior is unacceptable and we expect him to stop doing it. (then if he continues the beating comes into play).

Shrugging it off just makes it more likely that it will continue and become more of a problem.

The number leaving varies, but the delays come from them not being back in time to act on the next hand. There's a lot of, "I'm coming, don't fold me."

Ah, got it. Maybe deal the players out when they're not at the table? I know, then you'll run into "No, deal me in, I'm coming!" and the question of what to do if the blinds run into them. But just a thought.

Ruthlessly auto-folding and auto-blinding would solve the problem, but would probably lead to some hard feelings. I don't really want to suggest it because I like their style of play and making them crabby would also probably change their play.

I really appreciate ALL the feedback! As "Doug" has mentioned the biggest culprits here are also the major donators!! If they stay in order they usually have a hand or think they do LOL!
We attempted to get people to simply say "deal me out ", but that was only mildly accepted.
Thanks Gedanken for pointing out many more serious problems that we DON'T have!!
I think I will simply say something like "out of turn fold " and go with it. Maybe some other players will also speak up if the slowdown is really getting big. Thanks everyone!

Congrats on running the game for so long. Must be doing something right.

Here's a situation that came up the last time I played:table is 9 handed and I'm UTG. Player 2 seats to my left knocks one of his chip stacks on the floor while the cards are being dealt. I help him try to find his chips because we play this game in a very dark room with a concrete floor; chips tend to scatter far and wide. The player that knocked his chips over looks at his hand while still looking for his spilled chips and throws out a raise. I have yet to act. As it's folded around to the button, I toss my cards into the muck and the player in the BB admonishes me for folding out of turn. Ummm, I laugh and ask him how it's possible for me to fold out of turn PRE-FLOP after the deal when I'm UTG?

Lol

It's a freakin' HOME GAME, people! yeesh!

and I thought I was knitty...

LOL


wait, were you serious?

LOL indeed... since you proved it was possible, after all.

I like you, LL.

One player in our regular game does this, and some other irritating (at least to me) behaviors. I think he's got some need for attention, and I've stopped harassing (my word) him about things, figuring others will speak up if it bothers them. They have started to sigh, groan, poke fun, reprimand and slightly harass him for folding out of turn, taking longer than most to act, splashing the pot, tossing cards onto the board, etc.

We do have a few solid on rules / etiquette people, and they assist in making it not a single person (me) crusade.

If there are others who feel the same way you do, then you all need to take turns speaking up.


Another peeve... waiting for players to return to table, finish call, finish cutting/lighting cigar, wipe hands from greasy pizza, take an extra long drink. Things are pretty darn orderly, you know when it's coming around to you and it's not going to kill you to miss a hand. Perhaps that's another rant for another thread/time...

I like you too, IBD!


do we get a room now, or do you buy me dinner first?

If they are not in their seat, why are they getting cards?

If it's your home game and it bothers you that much, why not just make a rule against it?