A situation that came up at my university society last night. I wasn't at the table but they called me over for a ruling.

Hand reaches showdown HU. Checked down on the river and the OOP player announces A high, then throws his cards down. By the time I got there he'd picked them up again. One player (not in the hand) was saying they'd been mucked, but everyone agreed it was obvious which two cards had been his (the muck was only four folded cards and three burns and was scattered across a pretty big table). I don't know what the other guy in the pot did with regards to announcing his hand or showing his cards, but it seems the first player "mucked" without the other guy doing anything.

I ruled that since it was clear which cards he'd held and he'd announced his hand (and the two matched), he should still get the pot. To me, this seems like the best ruling as he didn't so much muck his cards as throw them down. I advised him not to do that again, but nobody seemed happy about the decision.

Right or wrong?

PS: There probably have been eight thousand threads with this same content before, but since they're all titled "Home Game Ruling"...

Your ruling was a good one. Obviously the guy should have tabled his hand, but he did announce it and the hand was clearly retrievable so I would have given him the pot. If there's a huge fight about it, a chop could be offered to keep it friendly because the guy did make a mistake and he will have learned his lesson for the future.

I think you did the right thing, his cards never hit the muck, it was obvious which cards were his so why rule them dead?

Also don't sweat people not being happy about the ruling, no matter what you said some people weren't going to like it.

I'm not following something here.

Lets label the players

Player A and Player B.

At showdown Player B announces Ace High and throws his cards down.

What did player A do?

According to your post Player A is still holding his cards, and noone has seen them but you awarded the pot to Player B.

So you must of left something out.

If what you left out was:

Player A tabled his hand and it could not beat Player B's Ace High. Then your decision was correct.

If what you left out was.

Player A seeing Player B relinquish hand tossed his hand into the muck expecting the dealer to push the pot to him and Player A's cards were irretrievablely mixed in with the muck, then i think you reached the wrong decision.


Also i wouyld note that you indicate dthe muck included the burn cards --- STOP THAT NOW. the burn cards should be tucked under the pot and clearly seperate from the muck.

I'm confused. But it gives me a chance to ask: what is the protocol when it's checked down on the river? At my game both players show.

It seems to me that a player is looking to win a pot with the worst cards at showdown. If I'm the floor, I ask if both hands are clearly identifiable and if they are, I flip them over and award the pot to the best hand.

From now on, I am going to label players who try to win a showdown with losing hand as angleshooters.

Wow, you learn something new every day. I did not know this; what's the reason for keeping the burn cards away from the muck?

For one, you will always know if a card (and only one) was burned properly.

the out of position player (Guy A) shows, the other guy (Guy B) shows if he wants to win the pot, mucks if he does not:

Guy A, or any other player at the table can ask to see Guy B's hand if B mucks.


my local casino enforces " showdown reached, all hands shown " rule. i hate that rule sooooooo much. don't allow it at your game

Some places ask the last aggressor to show first, but most places I played at require the earliest position player still in the hand to show.

In both cases, the other people do not have to show if they can not beat the hand, but must show to win the pot (ie must show the better hand).

eeew that is a gross rule imo. What is your "local casino"?

some smallish stupid UK one

you also have to say "raise" if you want to raise it preflop etc. when i went there the first time, obviously i had no idea this was the way they played, so i put in a raise only for the dealer to say " you have to say raise " and my action was replaced with a call.

i looked at the fellow players at the table and said " is it just like that here?" they all confidently agreed with the dealer "its like that everywhere" (lol), i shook my head, flopped the nuts and stacked a guy

As stated by another poster, by keeping the burns speerate you always can tell how many cards have been burned.

And people say you can't learn anything in Home Poker! I'll be sure to start doing this immediately; I'm amazed it never occurred to me before.

A good piece of advice I was given when I started playing in casinos was to never 'throw' your hand down. You might have just called to stack a guy with 7 high and are about to win the biggest pot of your life. But if one of your cards flip over and/or your cards touch the muck your hand is dead.

Simple. It doesn't matter what you say/said. People misread their hand all the time.
"I have the straight, wait **** I need the 6 right. Sorry, I have 8 high."

If it is not obvious which cards belong to a player at showdown because he made this mistake his hand is dead and the other player merely needs to show a hand to win the pot.

Actually neither. Player A didn't show his hand; he left it facedown on the table and said it was worse than ace high. If player A (who had the worst hand) deliberately mucked his hand irretrievably after player B threw his cards down, knowing that you would award him the pot, isn't that an angle shoot? He's taking advantage of A's obvious inexperience to win with the worst hand.


I'd never thought about that. Thanks.

In thsi circumstance I'm inclined to agree with you let the cards play,

I don't think the scenario I described would be an angleshot unless Player A really didn't think that Player B was mucking his hand.

Ive given you the answer to this one mr merton.what happens if you both reach the end and neither of you wants to reveal there cards,have it your way and it could be a long night.both reveal at showdown and the game recommences,easy,I think some players just like to make hurdles.

Robert's Rules say that each player shows down starting with out of position and finishing with the button. In practice, that means the person first to act on the river can either show down or give up his claim to the pot, and so on and so forth until the winning hand is shown or the last person in position wins the pot.

Some casinos go by the "last aggressive action" rule, which means that the player who made the last aggressive action (bet or raise) shows down no matter what street he last bet or raised.

They're both fine rules. Pick one for your game and be consistent in its application.

I like this rule a lot. It makes the action way clearer in the "one chip rule" situations when playing with people who can't seem to grasp the one chip rule.

ye but only if there was no betting on the river

Which question did you think I was answering? One other than the one I quoted in my response?

yep ur right sorry