you're discounting tyrion? nice work detective

I will RandyMarsh.jpeg all over this thread if the fool is a lackey of LF's.

He's obviously twisted. No one believes otherwise. Now if we're bringing Tywin into the picture then I agree that the Tyrell's can be involved. Otherwise, no. Like I said it traces back to them too easily and while it's safe to assume Tommen will follow Tywin's instructions there's precedent for a King disregarding this with Robb. In the end Tommen can marry whomever he pleases. We don't know his character at all. With Joffrey the Tyrell family is already in. There's gamble involved straying from a made hand.

Tommen cannot marry whomever he pleases. He's not Robb.

Pycel is def being Marginalized. Cersi has adopted Clyburn as her new doctor/ maester.

Has Tommen been the same actor this entire time or have they switched? I'm terrified to Google this answer. I'm curious how much screen time he'll get. I'm not sure how old he is relative to Joffrey. From what little I've seen of him I believe he's about 4-5 years younger. Also I don't expect a ton of chaos. The Lannisters have a chokehold over KL so the transition should be smooth.

We literally know nothing about Tommen. A King does as he pleases. He's not marrying anyone anytime soon because I thiiink he's like 14 years old.

Another ? For the little finger did it fanboys . If he was making a major play like this, wouldn't his move be to kill Tywin and benefit from KJ's chaotic reign to build alliances from all those who KJ has or will alienate ? One thing people are not realizing is the Lannisters are a stronger adversary with KJ six feet under and Tywin calling all of the shots un impeded . With KJ on the iron throne, there was always a huge possibility of him screwing every thing for the Lannisters

He was recast this season. Funnily enough, one of the Lannister cousins who died last season to Rickard Karstark is playing him. So he's back from the dead.

i guess the bigger hole in the tywin - olenna theory to me is that the motive for tywin seems a little weak. like, yeah, joff has been a pain in the ass but he hasn't actually stopped tywin from doing anything he wants, and there is big risk to clipping him. plus he is family. unless i am forgetting something more drastic.

also seems a little outside tywin's style to involve the tyrells so intimately in a plot like this. he is ruthless, sure, but he is always about the lannister legacy first and foremost. if he does it this way he really ties the fate of his own family so closely to the tyrells.

meh. don't love it. but the alternative is that olenna has some other master plan that gives her the leverage to pull this now. OR that she's really overestimated her holding in shooting for the tommen - marge play on the premise of the existing alliance without some additional reserve strategy.

maybe a tyrell - martell alliance? olenna offing joff is the first part of a multi-part sequence to take down the lannisters, with another major play soon to follow? hence oberyn being in KL.

maybe they clip tywin next and marry marge to tommen or something like that.

the martells and tyrells do seem to be kind of cut from the same cloth. could usher in a new liberal era in KL. and there was that glance between loras and oberyn.

Oh btw just thought of this but Cersei didn't like Marg at all. She didn't have any influence over Joff. We don't know her dynamic with Tommen. She could easily have the upper hand on Tywin if Tommen is mamas boy. There's no way Cersei wants her child married to Marg. And if she can stop it she will even if ir means standing against her father. She continuously tried to get the ear of Joffrey but he wasn't having it. The power dynamic very well may be shifted. Here's another reason why the Tyrell's are negative freerolling by killing Joffrey.

rofl that's great

Good point

tommen laughed at joffrey's "war of the 5 kings" skit (lool), so at the very least he has a sense of humor, at the very worst he's also a complete psychopath

how is he not marrying at 14? sansa was 14 last season and i can't imagine joffrey was much older

ok, tried to go to bed, but things really started coming together and had to put this out there.

not only is the olenna ultra power play theory sounding better by the minute, it's really the only thing that totally fits.

there is no wasted narrative in this show. think back to her first appearance and realize that it's a long, long con she is running.

not long after she arrives, who does she take an interest in and begin to groom? sansa, the most obvious patsy you could ever hope for.

the show makes a point of showing she's a mastermind - capable even of getting the best of tywin. and yet she is also always protesting about how dumb all the royal this and that is and casting herself as the lovable old crank. why go to the trouble to show all this if not to make it believable when she pulls off a crazy next level scheme-within-a-scheme enigma wrapped in a plot wrapped in... etc.

there is a ton of foreshadowing of all this, but to the point that it seems almost too obvious. the warning to marge in ep 1, the trolling of tywin on the way to the party, the remark to sansa. the idea is for the viewer (and also, importantly, tywin) to think she is too smart to sabotage her family's claim to the throne with such a gambit.

that's how she gets tywin (and us). he'll start putting it together very soon, but decide that olenna isn't rash enough to throw it all away on a play like this. but that's because she's convinced him that, yeah, she's brilliant, but her ambition is just to get marge on the throne. when in reality she's on some fifth-level **** - she doesn't want to just get her on the throne, she wants to get the lannisters off it. marge doesn't want to be a queen, she wants to be THE QUEEN. she's been cultivating public opinion all along, not because she's some dopey hippie slut like cersei thinks, but because she needs to hold the capital when the **** goes down.

why would somebody as sharp as olenna be satisfied to just put marge on the throne with joff and cersei around? no. she's climbing over the lannisters to get the throne, and then she's kicking them off the ladder and into the abyss.

everything makes sense through this lens. i think the martells are probably also involved, presumably they will get involved as muscle in the very near future.

the wild card is tyrion. he wasn't supposed to be the patsy - sansa was. so out of that situation comes the complication that could undo the whole scheme. maybe tywin doesn't realize in time, but tyrion puts it together. i think tywin and cersei are both gonna get clipped - they are priority targets if you're olenna, plus tyrion is probably in jail and jamie is all useless and ****. it's just a question of whether maybe tyrion and jamie can make it out.

and then suddenly you have the only likeable characters from two houses that were sworn enemies, both alive and on the wrong side of the powers that be.

You're gonna eat those words.

Just wait.

Where did we meet?

When KJ is on the ground doing the fish,Tyrion immediately picks up KJ's cup and u can see his wheels turning. He knows KJ has been poisoned and is wondering if it came from the wine. His shock is genuine. Tyrion is also smart enough not to whack the 1 person in Westernos that would produce him as the # 1 suspect.

All,

Pretty sure Khaleesi did it. Thoughts?

what does she care about whacking joffrey when it will just leave another usurper on the throne and her still on another continent? makes no sense. she is still going to have to come in and take westeros by force, and joffrey is no more or less legitimate than the next man as far as she's concerned. we haven't had any indication that she knows or cares about joffrey and no foreshadowing of this... also not really her style.

not buying

olenna by sick long con. book it

i was being sarcastic. it's blindingly obvious and goes without saying that tyrion didn't do it.

He wasn't serious ldo.

Or at least I hope he wasn't.

But she has such great boobs.

goofball is your undertitle a reference to election projections or crazy pineapple 8/b halfkill at the wynn circa 2006?