How did tyrion/varys find out about jon? Did i miss something or are we not meant to know?

think it's implied that Sansa just told Tyrion, and he told Varys

Jon, Dany, Bran, Sam, and Arya would be the other 5 who know at this point

i guess we're just supposed to accept that Dany & squad are not in range of all those scorpions & arrows pointed at them currently? otherwise this seems like a pretty good chance for Cersei to just wipe Drogon, Dany, Tyrion, and Grey Worm off the board, don't really see any reason why she wouldn't.

Gilly told Sam!!!

Poor Gilly gets **** on in perpetuity

writers:
"we want missandei executed in front of greyworm. hmmm how about euron captures her and Tyrion suggest another meeting"
"sounds good"

it's even funnier when you remember that they left Jaime at home, while having Missy in the boat vanguard [for reasons*]

like, you're going to war ... with Cersei


can they have 1 good plan before this show ends?
like, using Bran to lure the NK, only to be saved by Arya at the last second was about their best one so far lolol

They need to stop forcing political dialog at this point and embrace the pile of **** they've made. Tyrion praising Dany for her brilliance in promoting Gendry made me puke more than the rom-com scene with the dragons watching Jon and Dany make out.

I just want Bran to do SOMETHING before the show ends. They spent so much time on his story line North of the wall, people died to save his life, and so far the only productive thing he has done is to tell people that Jon's dad was Rhaegar.

Thank goodness they didn't show any of the characters' reactions to the news that John is a Targaryen. What a waste if time that would have been.

As a legitimized son of King Robert, Gendry has a much more plausible claim to the Iron Throne than either Dany or Jon! The Targaryens were deposed by a big revolt. Dany's big opening to push for a Targaryen restoration is that the whole Baratheon line was wiped out, and she resurrected it and gave its head one of the principal castles in the Seven Kingdoms for no reason.

This. Jon's whole arc is fully of narratives that point to him being the best natural leader in the show.

The only real counter-evidence is the dumb tactical stuff (Battle of the Bastards, and capturing a wight). However, this was clearly driven by the showrunners wanting good set-pieces without much thought about the consequences.

I don't see how Jon doesn't end up on the throne, provided he survives. Sansa turns heel and scheming her way to the throne is a good angle, but there is not nearly enough time to set this up without it appearing horribly rushed, and it would leave a lot unresolved.

Jon having to give up everything/everyone he loves ending up on the throne has been heavily foreshadowed

melisandre
"you will betray the men serving you, your family, you will betray everything you once hold dear and it will all be worth it, because you are the sun of fire, you will sweep away that pretender and that one and you will be king"

Varys
"the best ruler might be someone who doesn't want to rule"

He got resurrected, unites people, they trust him and want him to lead.
EVERYTHING hints at Jon ending up as the leader

Stephen King speculated on Twitter that it's Tyrion who ultimately takes the Iron Throne. Guy knows a thing or two about story telling.

Anyways what truly sucks is how good some of the arcs could have been instead of this nonsense. Like when Bronn is sent to kill Tyrion and Jamie, why not have it be Brienne that saves them, and then have her die in the process while maybe Tyrion or Jamie actually get their hands on a crossbow and kill Bronn in the process. Maybe some actual drama and emotion instead of just a nonsense scene that means nothing in the greater context.

Same goes for Arya and the Night King. What would've been cool is if one of the dead he resurrected was the little girl who got burned at the stake, shown as a way to f**k with Davos, then they could have a scene where that girl as a zombie almost kills Davos along with Arya, but at the last moment she prevails somehow, assumes her identity using her multi face magic and then uses that as a way to get close enough to the Night King to kill him. And that it was all a plan hatched by Tyrion and Varys with consultation from Bran.

And that's just two off the top of my head. Right now the entire show seems like it's being written by a committee of studio execs who are only looking at merchandising opportunities.

https://gfycat.com/nastymarriedamericanbobtail

Aye


Honour or love bit seems relevant. Dany torching King's Landing and Jon having to take over and/or kill her because of it and other indications of her being mad seems likely

gendry for the throne!

There's a paradox here in that Gendry can only be legitimized by the rightful monarch, so if he has a better claim than Dany, she's not the rightful queen so he's still a bastard and not a Baratheon. But of course he could still press his claim even as a bastard, it's happened repeatedly in this world's history (Blackfyres etc) and Cersei took steps to get rid of Robert's bastards for that reason.

that line of thinking is several orders of magnitude too complex for this series right now

ya, i want a "nuh uh, no take-backs!" line from Gendry

My gut says Jamie is highly likely to die given the speech the writers had the old lady Tyrell gave to him at Highgarden

ya Jon def has wisdom and also is a great leader - he just tends to be a poor tactician. I mean Jon's defense plan for the Battle of Winterfell was a good one...but the tactics used were really dumb and he was essentially saved by Arya when he the NK got the best of him and threw the plan astray.

I really have to disagree that the whole point of the story is to show what a great natural leader Jon is.

GRRM doesn't create such one-dimensional characters. He has said himself that ASOIAF is not a story about the good guys beating the bad guys. Everyone has shades of gray.

The show has gone to great lengths to illustrate the fact that Sansa is MUCH smarter than Jon at all aspects of non-combat leadership. It was shown many times in this past episode. Dany is absolutely right that the secret would destroy them. Sansa is absolutely right that the soldiers need rest. Jon just waves it all away because truth, justice, duty and the Stark way is all that matters.

Jon is a great character and arguably the most admirable person in the show. He has numerous great qualities. Yes he is obviously charismatic and people look to him for leadership. But if he were a modern politician he'd fall in the category of "great campaigner, terrible leader."

He isn't dumb but he's guileless. He was a major problem for #TeamDaenerys because he's too honor-bound to simply lie to Cersei. He's a fascinating tragic Greek hero whose fatal flaw is his honesty. That's consistent with the themes of the show that have been hammered since season 1. To paraphrase Cersei and Herm Edwards, you play to win the game or you die.

Jon has the same qualities that got Ned and Robb killed and put the entire ancient Stark line in jeopardy.

random question -- but is it assumed, maybe it clearly states it in the books, that Aemon knows or strongly suspects Jon is not Ned's son and is Rhaegar's?

being a good leader and being a good politician are two completely different things.

There is definite plot pressure whereby John makes the mistakes his foster dad does.

Being honourable and dying at the hands of the more cynical.

That is out there.

But with the current writers that means jack ****.