If you don't think Sansa is a legitimate candidate for the throne you haven't been paying attention. It's been pretty obvious to me for at least 10 episodes and it's been foreshadowed in a dozen ways.

She's been getting the best advice from the best players in the game for 8 seasons: Cersei, Tyrion, Littlefinger.

Currently she holds more influence including control over at least 3 kingdoms (the North, the Vale and the Riverlands) and, if push comes to shove, larger armies than anyone. Any military expedition by Dany will have to involve large portions of Sansa-controlled forces.

She's the only person in the whole show capable of being a peacetime leader. Dany is a conqueror and semi-religious figure, not a politician. Jon is a warrior not a monarch. Cersei is a despot and Euron is a megalomaniac.

It's funny that you cite Cersei as an expert player of the game because to book readers she's known as being infamously bad at it. She's ruthless, but that's about all she has going for her. She's competent at acquiring power, but disastrous at holding it. Her early season successes are down to the work of Littlefinger and then she sets about screwing everything up. Most obviously, she involves this kid cousin of hers Lancel in killing Robert (and sleeps with him for good measure) and then for no reason she allows the Faith Militant to reform, threatening the power of the Crown. And a religious-revival-infected Lancel denounces her and we get the walk of shame.

That's where the books and show part company. The show has made her look like a winner since then by the simple expedient of letting her do whatever she likes without consequence. Blow up the Sept of Baelor and sit the throne when your regency ends despite having no claim? Sure Cersei, you can do that. It's a lot easier to look like an expert game of thrones player when you're playing it solitaire. I invite you to imagine what would happen if a distant cousin of the House of Saud with no claim to the throne took it over while simultaneously blowing up the Grand Mosque.

I'll give you +800 on Sansa if you like. She's +650 on Bovada. I still want action if the Iron Throne doesn't exist at the end, though.

I do think that the physical Iron Throne is very likely to be destroyed. It was created by Balerion and I could see it being un-created by Drogon (Dany's dragons are likely to be Balerion's children).

It seems likely that the conclusion of "Game of Thrones" would lead to a breaking of the wheel. While Dany claims she will break the wheel, it seems impossible for her to be anything but a continuation of the original Targaryen dynasty that ruled by virtue of having dragons.

I would guess that Cersei gets the throne in the books at some point as well. I don't think the Maggy the Frog prophecy has been fulfilled - the younger more beautiful queen is Dany or Sansa.

The NK might have been reduced to a cipher by the manner of his death, there is also the problem that the manner of his death has done that to other characters as well.

Nearly all the exposition on John, since he went must recruit everyone for the great war has been rendered pointless, none of it had much if any impact on the battle as it could have been resolved exactly the same way with or without extra men and dragons etc etc

Getting the dothraki to cross the sea was a big theme of the show, and apart from one battle with the Lanisters, all they did was die completely pointlessly in one charge.

It would have been nice for all these elements to contribute to the death of the NK even if was in compltely indirect way, they dont have to actually help kill him, but at least in some way their presence helps to create the context or the conditions of his defeat.

As it stands their presence or non presence is an absolute irrelevance to his defeat.

Are people just mad that Arya killed the NK and not John? Or is it because a prophesied, apocalyptic enemy died to a literal sleight of hand?

People have explained why and it cant be reduced to an either or between those two options.

What is the deal with the three eyed raved in the books?

Grunching last few days of discussions.

Apparently a lot of stuff (even whole episodes?) just leaked from episode 4 and 5 at least.

I accidentally just saw a screenshot from next episode. Nothing huge or unpredictable really, but I guess no where is safe now damn

it'd be kind of weird if the show ended with some ~random heel turn
pretty much every one of the non-Cersei characters goes on and on about working together, honour, justice, mercy, atonement, good vs evil, life vs death, light vs darkness, decentralized power, doing things differently, breaking the wheel, etc, etc, etc

but of course it'd be grrm ironic to be like "ok but haha it actually ends with more pointless cynical political scheming and backstabbing for power because everything sucks"

Dany and/or Jon (and the dragons) dying would make the aftermath easier to resolve and/or if they just destroy the Iron Throne


Arya really should kill the Mountain, it's been set up in a million different ways
i just hope that she doesn't also die in the process
it'd be kind of pointless narratively, mostly just serve as a big death for the show
and an easy way to deny her the Cersei kill, which she seems very unlikely to get, but that doesn't seem hard to write around


Jaime & Brienne probably survive and end up together

good to know

i thought plot spoilers leaked before the season so i've mostly been trying to avoid everything best i can anyway, guess i'll redouble my efforts now

"Monday (I'm EU) without internet" was a thing for me while GoT was airing, I guess it's gonna be "a couple weeks without internet" now lol

Just watched the first 3 episodes of this season yesterday. I am not the drooling slobbering fan most of you are But I am liking this season a lot.

I thought season one was one of the greatest seasons of television ever. I ran out and read all of the books. The fact that more books were coming (are they?) upset me. I will never read a book series again until it is complete. But I digress. I thought seasons 2 through 7 were pure dreck. Sure a good episode here and there and some great scenes but in balance just really bad TV.

That said I am liking this season and looking forward to finally a conclusion of the story. There are plenty of nits to pick. Why send the Dothraki on a suicide run when the dragons would have been far more effective? How did Arya get through all of those walkers? Although I liked that scene a lot.

I think I liked season one so much because the story was simpler and there weren't 1000 characters to try and keep track of. This season the band is back together so to speak and all the main players are together. I'm just glad its finally gonna be over And I won't be reading anymore books if they ever come out. **** GRRM!

It seems really really likely that Jaime will kill Cersei in order to save the city but I'm guessing he won't be able to do it.

The thing is if the culmination of the series is just status quo it's hard to believe that it'd even be a story. Clearly the events of the show played large in the history of Westeros.

It's all gonna be a coma dream/prophecy in Bran's head after getting pushed out the window and he'll stop Ned from getting murdered.

I assume you are being facetious but I don't think it's that farfetched that some sort of time paradox will play heavily in the outcome.

Bran's powers make anything possible really.

I also don't think we've seen the last of the Faceless Men.

No way, LBR never jokes around.

I didn't say she wasn't legitimate, I said she wasn't credible.

And some people would vehemently defend and cheer such an ending too

Last opinions on ep 3 before ep 4 makes everybody forget ep 3.

1. Why send Dothraki and others to fight hand to hand and not use dragons?
Because fear of the Night Kings turning another dragon using his spear plus the fact they now had dragon glass and Jon and his group had fought wights before and were able to kill them.

2. How did Arya sneak up on the Night King?
In an earlier episode she surprised Jon by sneaking up on him in almost the very same spot that the Night King was in Gotswood. She was extensively trained in stealth and disguise and she may have found a secret passage. It was not revealed.

3. Did Ayra killing the NK may sense story-wise?
The prophecies were vague enough that her action could fulfill them. Jon is brave and steadfast and willing but he's not very smart tactician. He was killed once already. So for him to come up with some way to kill the NK by himself would have been surprising. He possibly did help here by distracting the ice dragon away from seeing Arya. Other people helped Arya in indirect ways.

4. Why did Bran not do much?
He has special powers of sight and memory but I never thought of him as a killer. He did help in key ways by giving the special blade to the right person, Arya, and by planning the strategy to lure the Night King.

5. Were the Night King ever a real threat to humans?
They came very close to wiping all the people at Winterfell and then the rest of humanity would be easy. Remember there still may be Night King type creatures out there because the NK transformed live babies early in the series and there still may be Children of the Forest. enemies of humanity.

6. Was the Night King death emotionally satisfying?
To me, hell, yes. It will probably become one of the most memorable scenes in TV history.

7. Will Arya kill Cersei?
I doubt it since she has had her big moment already and it doesn't seem to fit the prophecy.

8. Who will end up on the Iron Throne?
This will be GRRM's original idea. So you have think of something unusual , twisted. Not sure which one yet

She found a secret passage is a new one. Cmon son.

When she snuck up on John, was the wood absolute ram packed with soldiers?

There is no point trying give a hypothetical about how she gets to the NK without dealing with how absolutely ram packed the wood was.

Hide in shadows is a super standard stealth ability for rogues.

I don't think her feat is any less believable than Sam and Frodo hiding under an elven cloak with an orc sentry 20 feet away on the outskirts of Mordor.

Jaqen displayed the ability to basically disappear in broad daylight while offing Lannister lackeys at Harrenhal.

Arya proved to be especially adept at maneuvering in the dark in her fight with the Waif. And she showed her ability to sneak past wights undetected in this episode.

She's a ninja assassin favored by both R'hllor and the Many Faced God on her home turf. It ain't a thang.

I agree with #1, you dont want to risk your best asset against an untested enemy when they've already proven successful at beating you with less.

But #2, I dont mind that she killed the NK, I dont mind that she somehow snuck past all the white walkers since thats her thing now, it just bothers me that she killed a god with the equivalent of a sleight of hand trick.

It's like using the tennis ball trick with your dog, could she have pump faked a dagger throw at the NK and when he looks over his shoulder she throws the real thing? How about tapping him on the left side and then punking him from the right? Maybe just kick some snow into his eyes and fight dirty. Disguise herself as one of his minions and shank em in the ribs. I find all of these killshots as equally skilled as the manner in which she really did it. It was cheap & undeserving of such a monster. This guy just caught her in mid air, he can throw a spear a mile into the sky and hit a flying dragon in the heart, you mean to tell me that he couldnt release his grip on her and grab her free hand once he noticed what she was doing? You mean to tell me that an immortal harbinger of death was so unobservant that he get sucker punched by a kid? **** that, not buying it at all. Cheap, lazy storytelling from writers who werent smart enough for a clever demise.

nope sorry, it was just named as the best scene in tv history by internet dot com

What are the odds that we get a Howland Reed appearance before the end?

pretty low

it might have made sense if there was more meat on the Night King storyline, but now?
maybe they'll show him just for the **** of it, but