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Old 05-04-2016, 07:27 AM   #7101
WoodsGOAT
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

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I wonder if Jon is released from his vows that he took until his death.

Seems clear that bastards can have some claim to succession if there are no legit heirs left. Not sure what would have happened to Ramsey if Roose had died before legitimising him - maybe there's a brother or someone else who hasn't been in the picture.
I wonder if Jon might take the line of "I'm remaining Lord Commander but I need to leave the Wall and conquer the North and garner support for the watch before the White Walkers attack and winter comes".

Its really up to Jon, who is gonna argue with him. He has the wildlings with him so he can do what he likes now. He was betrayed by his brothers so he can leave them.

If he leaves no one can complain he's broken his vows because his watch technically ended.

I'm betting he remains Lord Commander but goes off to take the North and turn the heads of all the great houses of Westeros to the impending doom.

Does it say anywhere that a Lord Commander cant go off on such a mission? I think its up to him. They cant defeat anything with 30-40 men.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:46 AM   #7102
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

a Lord Commander certainly can't claim the Iron Throne tho
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:56 AM   #7103
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

Doubt very much that that's what he s after anyway
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Old 05-04-2016, 08:20 AM   #7104
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

There basically is no nights watch anymore.

Who is going to enforce any rules? If those that are left decide to change the rules nobody cares and can't do anything about it anyway.
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Old 05-04-2016, 09:30 AM   #7105
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

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If Jon is a legitimate son of Raegar and Lianna he'd be the Targ heir I think.
I don't think that would be right. Dany would be the only remaining daughter of Aerys, the last Targ king. As Rhaegar died before Aerys, I don't think his kid would have had superior claim to Dany (at least that is how it works for British kings, I guess it could be different in Westeros).

Also, Jon would be a bastard as he Rhaegar was not married to Lyanna - it doesn't matter that she was highborn. Thus, even if his claim could be superior, I think it would still be Dany as the true heir.
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Old 05-04-2016, 09:53 AM   #7106
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

The only reason the Baratheons toon over is because of some vague relation to the Targ bloodline (and no more Targ bloodline remaining((chased to be killed)).

So yea, a Targ blood would be the primary contender, as long as he got enough swords to back him.
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Old 05-04-2016, 09:55 AM   #7107
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

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I don't think that would be right. Dany would be the only remaining daughter of Aerys, the last Targ king. As Rhaegar died before Aerys, I don't think his kid would have had superior claim to Dany (at least that is how it works for British kings, I guess it could be different in Westeros).

Also, Jon would be a bastard as he Rhaegar was not married to Lyanna - it doesn't matter that she was highborn. Thus, even if his claim could be superior, I think it would still be Dany as the true heir.
Tell that to the guy who decided to legitimize his bastards and start a ****ing civil war.
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:10 AM   #7108
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

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Also, Jon would be a bastard as he Rhaegar was not married to Lyanna - it doesn't matter that she was highborn. Thus, even if his claim could be superior, I think it would still be Dany as the true heir.
What if I told you Lyanna and Rhaegar (nice spelling, thanks m8) were married?

What do we know about Rhaegar? The only thing we learn from anyone who actually knew Rhaegar was when Selmy tells Dany that he was a good guy. Now, do you think Selmy would have high opinions of someone who kidnapped and raped a highborn lady? Also, why do we even see this scene talking about a guy that seemingly has no relevance to the show?

There's also the tidbit from Littlefinger about Rhaegar courting? Lyanna at a jousting tournament. Actually, I'm pretty sure this happened or I could have just made this up in my head.

What do we know about Robert? He is a drunk, womanizing warlord. He admits, although 19? years later that he was a ****ty husband and a bad ruler. I can only guess many of these negative traits existed when he was young.

So, your Lyanna. You potentially have a secret romance with a charming Prince. You can either run away with the Prince and elope, or stay and get married off like a pawn.

In this fantasy Jon is a legitimate son. Half Stark and Half Targ.
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:17 AM   #7109
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

I saw an article on fb that tried to figure out who would is the current heir to the throne if Tommen should die. It was complicated but they traced it way back and I guess it's Cersei.
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Old 05-04-2016, 01:48 PM   #7110
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

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What if I told you Lyanna and Rhaegar (nice spelling, thanks m8) were married?

What do we know about Rhaegar? The only thing we learn from anyone who actually knew Rhaegar was when Selmy tells Dany that he was a good guy. Now, do you think Selmy would have high opinions of someone who kidnapped and raped a highborn lady? Also, why do we even see this scene talking about a guy that seemingly has no relevance to the show?

There's also the tidbit from Littlefinger about Rhaegar courting? Lyanna at a jousting tournament. Actually, I'm pretty sure this happened or I could have just made this up in my head.

What do we know about Robert? He is a drunk, womanizing warlord. He admits, although 19? years later that he was a ****ty husband and a bad ruler. I can only guess many of these negative traits existed when he was young.

So, your Lyanna. You potentially have a secret romance with a charming Prince. You can either run away with the Prince and elope, or stay and get married off like a pawn.

In this fantasy Jon is a legitimate son. Half Stark and Half Targ.
I agree with most of your theory, and think that it seems more likely than not that Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar rather than being abducted.

The big problem with Jon being a legitimate son is that Rheagar was already married to Elia Martell. Thus even if his relationship with Lyanna was consensual, I don't think he could have married her. I guess its possible he could some sort of quickie divorce and then remarried, but I would think there would be some record of it happening.
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:27 PM   #7111
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

hmmm ok
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:34 PM   #7112
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

In the backstory im gonna suppose we will get soon enough, I would think there's more then they ran away w each other. Its just too simple for what has been hinted at forever in this story.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:06 PM   #7113
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

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I saw an article on fb that tried to figure out who would is the current heir to the throne if Tommen should die. It was complicated but they traced it way back and I guess it's Cersei.
Isn't Kevan still alive? It's gotta be him.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:14 PM   #7114
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

It should be summer random baratheon cousin.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:20 PM   #7115
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

Oh, duh. I forgot. Yeah, there's definitely some distant Baratheon out there.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:21 PM   #7116
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

I kind of think the Faith Militant are going to run all of KL by the end of the season, with maybe all of Tommen, Cersei, Jamie being put to death.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:55 PM   #7117
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

Nah, theres got to be some mass slaughter awaiting the priests. I mean its what, 10k dudes w clubs?
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Old 05-04-2016, 08:11 PM   #7118
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

What if the first wife died and they didn't think he was ever able to create offspring with Ned's sister?
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Old 05-04-2016, 08:14 PM   #7119
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

Yea I feel like Jamie is going to raise a military/militia and take control back.

That is the only play that would make any sense out of him.

It would be really unexpected if KL became a religious "middle class" place without kings and all the firepower came from multiple groups attacking KL simultaneously.
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Old 05-04-2016, 09:00 PM   #7120
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

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What if the first wife died and they didn't think he was ever able to create offspring with Ned's sister?
Pretty sure she's the woman the mountain "raped and killed". IE the whole Dorne storyline. Assumptions are that would have taken place when King's Landing fell during Robert's Rebellion. Not sure it's ever mentioned exactly when that happened but no other time makes sense.
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Old 05-04-2016, 09:46 PM   #7121
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

Yall don't think Snow is Robs after the scene of him and Ned at her resting spot in season 1?
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Old 05-04-2016, 09:59 PM   #7122
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

Jon? Isn't Jon older than Rob?
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Old 05-04-2016, 10:47 PM   #7123
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

Pretty sure he means Robert Baratheon.
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:28 PM   #7124
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

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Pretty sure he means Robert Baratheon.
This hard to post from my phone, after season one with the cersie/Ned and Robert/Ned scenes I was thinking this, wondering if it's plausible
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Old 05-05-2016, 03:18 AM   #7125
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Re: Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

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Why were they (the Lanisters) so concerned about his existence then? And in theory if the current king is actually not the true king (since he's not from Robert), and if Stanis and Renly are dead, isn't the bastard the closest thing to a true blood link to the throne? He's the only thing even close to Robert's blood that I can think of.
see kdubs post below.

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I think part of the point of the children's killing is to establish that Joffrey was brutal and crazy and that Cersei did not have control over him. The whole reason Joffrey was assassinated was because of how much everyone hated him. The public killing of all those babies did not sit well with anyone.
I'm really confused as to how ur such an amazing show watcher that all the way back in season 2 ur guessing R+L=J just from watching the shows and yet in response to the above question by rafki this is ur response.
kdub answers it correctly and it's one of the more simple explanations so how on earth did u miss it so entirely esp when it was a vital plot point?

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I think they were concerned about killing all of Robert's bastards because of the whole "the seed is strong" thing. Every bastard had hair of black. Jon Arryn and Ned were close to making this case public --"Look at how 100% of Robert's bastards have black hair and how none of Cersei's kids do."
it's obv this and has absolutely nothing to do with establishing joffery's cruelty.

I dunno how u guys have allowed doggz to pretend he hasn't gotten info from outside sources.
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