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Old 09-16-2018, 02:42 AM   #1
joesolo561
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value owned by "friend"

I genuinely feel i was value owned by a so called friend, for a pretty substantial amount of money. First, ill start off with some back round information.

We've known each other for about 8 years and have became close via sharing a passion for poker. Loaning/borrowing/swapping was normal for us. Throughout the majority of the friendship, i have gone out of my way on (at least) 3 separate occasions to help this friend when he was stuck with no help/support from anyone at all. Thats what friends are supposed to do. This person really helped me plug a lot of leaks early in my poker career so i feel as if i owed him out of respect and appreciation.

Anyway, 3 weeks ago, he was in need of some help as he didnt have a job and was essentially busto. I spoke to my friend/company supervisor and assured him that my friend was serious about actually working for the company (this time). Previously he trained for the job, and then never went to work because of a mid 5 fig mtt score. So he got a plane ticket to my city, and we began working together at the company, while trying to run up $ online in the evenings after work. Now, when i picked him up from the airport, he had about $150 on him and i think i had about the same? We're both terrible with BRM and have pretty much eventually dusted every roll we've ever built.

So i let him stay at my house for a few weeks so he could get a couple pay checks and get his own apartment. Throughout the week, we were working and then going to the casinos to eat dinner and use free play in the slots. We ended up turning my free play into thousands online. We decide that we want to work as a team and 60/40 every mtt we play together until we snap off something juicy and we both have a healthy roll again. Basically, we'd enter the same events, and the same sattys, and chop all the action 60% to the winner and 40% to the other person. If we both play satellites to the same event, and one of us gets the seat, then we both have action in the event.

I end up having a super sick week and make an FT every single night of the week on ACR and break him off 40% of every bink. We were up around 8k or so when sunday funday rolls around... and then the unthinkable happens. So saturday night we played live poker til around 6 am drinking and having fun. I was first to wake up on sunday and started playing a $80 satty to the $530 millie with the last of my $ in my account. I bricked it and when my friend woke up, he began to play and ended up winning a $70 satty to the millie. So fast forward to when he is at the final table of the sunday millie, we are going nuts having an absolute blast BOOMING and hollering every time we win a flip or hold in crucial spots, he says to me "you know im giving you 10% right"....

At that moment, i accepted what he just said to me, as i didnt want to compromise any concentration needed for the tournament. It also didnt register in my mind until early the next morning, something snapped me awake out of a dead sleep. I had totally forgotten that i played a satty to the millie that morning and bricked it. He plays an identical satty and ships the seat. Do you see any reason why i wouldnt be entitled to the 40% action that we've been swapping every single day that week? This was just under a 100k score. This was literally what we've been working and grinding for, as a team.

I wake him up frantically and nervously because i had to address this. I told him that we overlooked a detail which entitles me to 40%... you know, even typing this right now, im getting a chance to review my thoughts, and if the roles were reveresed, i just absolutely would never ****ing dream of giving him a penny less than the 40% we've been swapping all week. ESPECIALLY since i was the one making final tables nightly and pumping up our bankrolls. ESPECIALLY since ive been the only one to genuinely have his back on so many god damn occasions. I helped get him off of hard drugs. I pushed him through getting his job certification for a great company. And If i was in action, then he was in action.

Even his old backer gave him advice on the dilemma, and he found a way to interpret the advice in the most selfish way possible. The bold statement his backer made to him was "if the situation was reveresed, how would your friend (me) handle the situation?"

I literally split my last $200 with him at the start of that week so we could sit a live cash game with 100$ each, which eventually led alllllll the way to the final table in the millie.

He knows for a fact based on my history with him that there wouldnt be a minuscule chance in hell that i'd even consider not breaking him off the 40% we've been swapping all god damn week long. He feels justified in not giving me 40% because we didnt register the same EXACT satellite. Both of the satellites were of the SAME value and played within two hours of each other. Everyday, we were both trying to satty into the series events and if one of us won a seat, the other would still get the 40% sweat. ****ing team work you know? So of couse when sunday rolls around and we play our session, he uses a loophole of me not registering the same EXACT satellite as a legitimate reason to only give me 10% instead of 40%.

It was easily the most uncomfortable situations of my life knowing im about to get value owned ONCE AGAIN by this god damn friend of mine. I would be so god damn pumped to break him off $37k and keep over 50k for myself so we could both play/live super comfortably. As a matter of fact, he wouldnt have had to bring to my attention the next morning that he was entitled to 40% because i would have just shipped him his cut the moment i busted the tournament. There would never be a thought to not break him off. How dare he offer me 10% as he reaches the final table. How retarded of me for saying thank you. After much debate, and my anger gradually increasing as he keeps asking everyone in his phone how he should handle the situation and sticking to his loophole of when/what sattys were played, he sends me 15k and keeps almost 80k for himself.

Over the next few days, im semi grateful that i have 15k, and at the same time im just 1000000% mega life tilted inside that he really is ok with the amount he gave me. I even tried expressing gratitude for the money he gave me. I just couldnt get over the fact that i just dont have it in me to handle this situation the way he is handling it. At first, he wanted to give me just 9K!!! A lousy 10% and just hoard the lion share for himself. I decided to go to the casino alone and drink and gamble in the pits. He jumped on a plane that night and left town. He also thinks he is high and mighty because for the past few months i have been losing alot in the pits and he feels the money would be safer with him. Wether thats true or not, has no authority over the situation. If i wanted to take my money and spend it hooker and blow, its 100% my choice and is of no concern to him. Like i said in the begining, he has dusted just as many bankrolls as i have.

I'm not crazy right? This is one selfish ass person right? Please respond with questions or feedback. Thanks for reading.
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Old 09-16-2018, 02:50 AM   #2
Sir Huntington
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Re: value owned by "friend"

Cool story bro, can I borrow $5 bucks? My name is Sir Huntington on WPN. Transfer soon cuz I'm trying to play this tourney!!
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Old 09-16-2018, 02:55 AM   #3
joesolo561
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Re: value owned by "friend"

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Originally Posted by Sir Huntington View Post
Cool story bro, can I borrow $5 bucks? My name is Sir Huntington on WPN. Transfer soon cuz I'm trying to play this tourney!!
I may consider it for a genuine reply with your opinion
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:02 AM   #4
gamboneee
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Re: value owned by "friend"

ill take the 5. time to redefine "friend" and move on. doesnt seem like you are getting any more than you have. just think about how next time he dusts off a roll theres one less person to bail him out.

and stop punting in the pits. ill take 10 for that one.
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:39 AM   #5
joesolo561
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Re: value owned by "friend"

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Originally Posted by gamboneee View Post
ill take the 5. time to redefine "friend" and move on. doesnt seem like you are getting any more than you have. just think about how next time he dusts off a roll theres one less person to bail him out.

and stop punting in the pits. ill take 10 for that one.
Oh Iím 100% sure I wonít get another penny from him. I blocked and deleted him from social media and cell phone after he texts me asking how my roll is doing. Thereís no way I would be able to just pretend that Iím just ok with the outcome of this.

And yeah you ainít god damn lying. Slots have really gotten a hold of me as of lately. Gotta make some life adjustments immediately. Winning all the money in poker and flushing the profits down the drain in the pits. Brutal cycle but Iím growing. I will make the necessary life changes in order to reach my goals.
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:39 AM   #6
SageDonkey
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Re: value owned by "friend"

joesolo561, you are in the minority of poker players who have high standards of personal conduct (~20% IMO)

Based on your testimony of what happened, your poker "friend" is in the 80% who when push comes to shove will put himself first and throw all ethics and humanity out of the window.

You've done well to get $15K from such a person.

My advice is to never do any financial business with this person, and to assume that anyone and everyone in poker is liable to have his tendencies should a situation develop where they can get away with it.
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:42 AM   #7
dmt4me
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Re: value owned by "friend"

i will take a mere 4k for my advice at paypal.me/mc858

if there is anything festering beneath the surface you need to bring it up, sounds like you have known him for a while. Also - dont wake people up in the middle of the night lol- thats way to impulsive - just wait until the morning when something pops into your head going forward in life.

Also - i dont know how you talk to people but that matters. Dont be confrontational- show empathy and try to find a middle ground. Maybe he needs a reminder of all the crap you guys have been through together to see that you both shared the burdern

goodluck.
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Old 09-16-2018, 05:49 AM   #8
krcmdc
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Re: value owned by "friend"

Without naming names, it's just another bad beat story.
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Old 09-16-2018, 08:53 AM   #9
jcorb
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Re: value owned by "friend"

Maybe Nancy Reagan had a good answer for this.

If someone asks to borrow money, just say no.

Easy game.
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Old 09-16-2018, 08:56 AM   #10
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Re: value owned by "friend"

on the other hand go ahead and loan degens money, stake them for 60/40 'deals' then come on sites like this and cry about not getting paid back.

mildly entertaining
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:51 AM   #11
2pairsof2s
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Re: value owned by "friend"

"Not a borrower nor a lender be," is what my Granny said to me. Also don't go around helping out gamblers. If you give a hand up to a degenerate gambler, you will eventually regret it. Actually you are probably better off never helping anyone ever for any reason.
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Old 09-16-2018, 12:03 PM   #12
joesolo561
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Re: value owned by "friend"

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Originally Posted by krcmdc View Post
Without naming names, it's just another bad beat story.
I donít see a point in naming names. Iím sure the ďfriendĒ will see this thread and probably wonít be able to contain himself without leaving his two cents about howís technically justified to not give me the 40% that weíve been swapping all week long. For his sake, I truly hope he doesnít dust this role because having me as a lifeline is no longer a thing. Heís totally exhausted me as a resource.
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Old 09-16-2018, 12:13 PM   #13
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Re: value owned by "friend"

don't worry, he will be broke soon, degens gonna Degen
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Old 09-16-2018, 12:27 PM   #14
joesolo561
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Re: value owned by "friend"

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don't worry, he will be broke soon, degens gonna Degen
I mean youíre probably right. Itís just so sick. We were both raw yíall you as broke, we equally grinded everyday to get to Sunday, I broke him off 40% from like 5 different mtt scores, and when it comes time to chop up the big one, he weasels out of it on a technicality 🤦*♂️ I honestly expect him to handle it this way. Heís been a selfish piece of **** since Iíve known him. My dues have been paid this time. This will sting for a while but definitely time to move on.
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:51 PM   #15
joesolo561
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Re: value owned by "friend"

Wubbalubdub on acr. Feel free to berate him. Totally getting angrier by the day.
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Old 09-16-2018, 04:22 PM   #16
bumpnrun
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Re: value owned by "friend"

Reads Sages post a few times ...he pretty spot on except I put the % at 10%
Iíve heard variations of your story countless times.

Especially the bit about u being pretty lucky to get the chunk you did. Loads would have disappeared on you and given you 0
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Old 09-16-2018, 04:45 PM   #17
U shove i call
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Re: value owned by "friend"

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Originally Posted by bumpnrun View Post
Reads Sages post a few times ...he pretty spot on except I put the % at 10%
I’ve heard variations of your story countless times.

Especially the bit about u being pretty lucky to get the chunk you did. Loads would have disappeared on you and given you 0
Shocked that you posted in this thread Why don't you share with us how you have come to the conclusion that only 10% of poker players are decent human beings? i assume you have met and had dealing with many thousands of players to come to this conclusion.

OP not sure what to say really just choose your close friends carefully i guess. There are alot of bad people in all walks of life unfortunately.

Last edited by U shove i call; 09-16-2018 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 09-16-2018, 05:36 PM   #18
joesolo561
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Re: value owned by "friend"

Yes I’m definitely lucky to get 15k for sure. Unfortunately I handled the situation poorly but still, the ball was in his court when it came down to it. He had the choice and he made it. The most disturbing detail about this (which he will 100% deny), is that when I presented him with this debacle in the morning, his initial reaction was “yes you are making good points”. And then he ACKNOWLEDGED that if the roles were reversed, there isn’t a doubt that I would have done the right thing and gave him the 40% like We’ve been doing all week. Not even a remote chance that the thought would cross my mind to not give him 40% regardless of which satty he played or what time it was played or what ever minor pice of **** detail hes using to justify being a greedy ****. He admitted to my face that if the roles were reversed, he knows I would have paid him the full 40%. That mother ****er.
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:09 PM   #19
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Re: value owned by "friend"

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Originally Posted by U shove i call View Post
Shocked that you posted in this thread Why don't you share with us how you have come to the conclusion that only 10% of poker players are decent human beings? i assume you have met and had dealing with many thousands of players to come to this conclusion.

OP not sure what to say really just choose your close friends carefully i guess. There are alot of bad people in all walks of life unfortunately.


Right. ďAll walks of lifeĒ you are truely deluded if you think the moral compass of the general community can be compared at all to the gambling community at all


Ive Had dealings with hundreds IRL? I was a regular at my LC for years before quitting for family life. Recently went back a bit and many of the faces are he same except most of them donít talk to each other anymore.

My conclusion are from these experiences and online observations. Iím been a bit OTT on my ragging on the pro community sure, someone had to bring the rhetoric....so I guess thatís why it hurts u so much Iím being proven historically correct over and over.

See thread on smartbacking for example. I have longed accused stables of his sort of behaviour while getting berated on here . I came to this conclusion without runnning studies on anything just understanding the dynamics and mindset of the community and adding ****ing common sense

I donít know how to get through to you how appalling it is that casuals canít get
a fair game. Your oblivian to that makes me assume you are either very stupid or one of the cheaters

/I was mad reading the SB thread. Sage is probably more on point with his 20.
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Old 09-17-2018, 12:11 AM   #20
U shove i call
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Re: value owned by "friend"

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Right. “All walks of life” you are truely deluded if you think the moral compass of the general community can be compared at all to the gambling community at all
I never said this though as i happen to agree with you. Just not to the degree that you claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpnrun View Post
I’m been a bit OTT on my ragging on the pro community sure, someone had to bring the rhetoric....so I guess that’s why it hurts u so much I’m being proven historically correct over and over.
Its annoyed me how you generally tar all pros with the same brush of being cheating angleshooting bumhunting scumbags. As a pro for 8 years i can honestly say i have never done any of those things. Did you expect poker to stay easy forever with the amount of money thats involved? The people who invented the seating scripts, GTO solvers and real time charts for personal profit are more to blame than the people who have to use them to keep ahead of the curve surely.

Do you think honest sportsmen don't get screwed over by other taking performance enhancing steroids? Every single industry has a % of cheaters and scumbags its not unique to the gambling world. I saw your recent suggestion that all stables should be banned. Should we ban all sports as well due to some of them cheating?

Last edited by U shove i call; 09-17-2018 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 09-17-2018, 04:14 AM   #21
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Re: value owned by "friend"

Meh analogy. A better one would be should we ban Russia from the olympics if their sporting body is proved to facilitate systemic doping (yes we should/did)

Iíve professed my admiration for a few pro posters on here so itís not all. Yes inventors of cheating software are more culpable.

This is getting too OT anyway . Attack me somewhere else

OP......have u considered legal options? are u in the US ?
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Old 09-17-2018, 12:32 PM   #22
U shove i call
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Re: value owned by "friend"

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Originally Posted by bumpnrun View Post
This is getting too OT anyway . Attack me somewhere else

OP......have u considered legal options? are u in the US ?
This is a conversation not a attack but you are correct this is OT. Legal options are probably a non starter as this all sounds like verbal agreements no contracts or anything written in wet ink so there is no proof.
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Old 09-17-2018, 12:58 PM   #23
joesolo561
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Re: value owned by "friend"

Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpnrun View Post
Meh analogy. A better one would be should we ban Russia from the olympics if their sporting body is proved to facilitate systemic doping (yes we should/did)

Iíve professed my admiration for a few pro posters on here so itís not all. Yes inventors of cheating software are more culpable.

This is getting too OT anyway . Attack me somewhere else

OP......have u considered legal options? are u in the US ?
Nah no legal options. Heíd set fire to the money before being forced to legally give me more lol. This isnít the first time heís been a selfish ****wad, but this is the last time I will tolerate it.
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Old 09-17-2018, 08:30 PM   #24
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Re: value owned by "friend"

Get your popcorn ready before reading this one guys.

Just Incase you’re following this thread mr wubbalubdub, I’m gonna leave behind a tl;dr post just so you know exactly why you can take your justifications, and shove them directly up your ass.

Do you remember the time about 4 years ago when you were dead busto at home with zero options miserable as dog ****, and I happened to be on a nice heater and snapped off that 17k bink in Tampa, and immediately got you a plane ticket? You remember when I fully staked you in cash and tournaments, paid for your meals, bought you new clothes/ shoes, cell phone, and Paid for some strip club fun? Do you remember how you reacted towards me when I told you my luck was turning and I was starting to lose a lot very quickly and I needed to get out of town to regroup, and I offered for you to come with me so we can grind locally? You tried to guilt me into staying in town because you snap bought tickets to some EDM show which was a week away and still needed transportation and a hotel that I was funding, and you tried to tell me it was my responsibility to keep you in Florida because you won a seat to a $1200 main event that I had action in from a mtt that I previously staked you in. After I refused to stay in town, you chose to stay with another friend and ended up going broke not soon after, and then blamed me! What a guy!!

How about let’s fast forward a year or so when I was totally broke and you manage to snap off a stake by a certain black jack degen that decided to fly you guys out to Vegas for Wsop. I was sweating your action excited as hell for you as you went deep and placed in the top 50 players for like a 32k score. What happened after you won that money? Oh that’s right, you totally ignored every single call and text message from me! You totally didn’t give a flying **** about how I had your back when you were stuck with zero options! How convenient my friend! How long did I not speak to you for that one? At least a year.

Fast forward to about a year ago when some ****ing how we start talking again. Once again, you’re broke, stuck and hopeless when mr joesolo561 helps you to your feet, gets my boss to pay for a plane ticket for you, and then I drive us 4 hours away and absolute force you to complete the certification course to secure your position at the company I work for, while funding our every move every step of the way. I forced you to go get haircuts just so you would feel better about yourself cuz I knew you were mentally in a slump. I was your friend you mother ****er. And not 2 weeks after you complete the course, you bink online at my house for 35k. What did we do that night you won bro? Do you remember? Because I sure do. I remember going to the casino to celebrate with you. I remember getting drunk and gambling having fun. I remember I ran pretty bad in the pits. I also remember that we both sat 5/10 PLO and you scooped a 4 way all in which resulted in taking my last 1k that I had. I also remember the drive home and you telling me how much it sucks that I lost lol. I’m sorry but what kind of friend let’s his friend go home dead broke after celebrating his 5 figure mtt score? Sure, I admit that you didn’t force me to gamble and it was solely my decision to play what ever we played that night. But wtf? How do you not look out for me? You made the next few weeks at my house absolutely miserable with your neediness and constant sense of entitlement. Do you remember losing your **** when I told you to catch a $8 Uber back home from the casino instead bothering me every single time for a 5 minute ride? You literally felt disrespected because you felt entitled to have a free private taxi simply because I’m your friend. That was just the icing on the cake. You put holes in my walls in your room over the situation. I didn’t feel like driving you to the store and you ****ing LOST IT! U literally put holes in my walls bro. WTF!?!?

Finally we’ve reached the most recent act of pure selfishness. Yet again, mr wubbalubdub was broke and optionless. What did pokerjoe561 do? By some act of god (jk I’m an atheist), I forgave him for his ****ery once again and talked my boss into giving him another shot with the company. We get him a plane ticket, he flys to my city, we work during the day and run up my free play at night online. We 60/40 everything. I break you off 40% of like 6 different final tabled for the next 5 days. Come Sunday, I brick my satty to the Millie and you snap yours off and parlay to a $90k score and somehow, you feel justified to at first only wanting to give me 10%. I don’t give a **** what kind of terms and conditions you wanted to grasp in order to not break me off my 40%. I was your FRIEND! I literally looked out for you more than any one else ever had, ever. How did you not instantly feel compelled to split such a large amount of money with me. How could your first reaction be, “I’m giving you 10%”? Bro, shipping me 37k and keeping over 50k for yourself is life changing. How could you be such a greedy ****? I’m supposed to be appreciative of the 15k? Go fk yourself.

Ok rant over. I’ve been obsessing about this and just had to get it all out and off my chest. So here ya go buddy, I know you’ll take all this with a grain of salt. As much as I loved seeing you lose over 5k yesterday online bricking every mtt, I really am worried for when you go broke again since you totally torpedoed this friendship. Best of fkn luck to ya.

Edit: wow after reading all this back to myself, I’m sitting here wondering why the hell I would continue to remain friends with him after so many acts of selfishness? Well the answer to that is he was the one who had the greatest impact on plugging my early leaks in my poker game which helped me graduate from fish stick to winning player. That was really really important to me and I greatly appreciated it. I guess you extracted max value for that one dude! Well played.
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Old 09-18-2018, 08:57 AM   #25
jcorb
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Re: value owned by "friend"

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Originally Posted by joesolo561 View Post
I honestly expect him to handle it this way. Heís been a selfish piece of **** since Iíve known him.
Keep doing the same thing and expect a different result? If you knew him to be a piece of shyt then it's all your fault for associating with him, staking him, helping him get a job, etc. No one to blame but yourself.

You knew he was a snake now you're complaining because he bit you.
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