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Old 04-09-2019, 09:26 PM   #26
MasterOfPoo8
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

auralex this is theft and blackmail combined into one man.. come on.
but i havent heard/seen much positive stuff from greeks online within poker. guess it wont change
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:34 PM   #27
auralex14
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

I understand guys--I'm not defending his actions, I communicated poorly if that's how it came across. Although I think you meant to say extortion-

I just gave my opinion on how arbitration would work out. I used my experience with contracts and I know several attorneys, including a creditors rights attorney who I've chatted with about this. They all said a new contract was formed and $3k would settle the debt entirely based on the chat logs. They don't know anything about how the staking industry works, or if their are special rules that apply. They just know contracts. And we talked about the issue for about 2 minutes each. Perhaps their opinion would change if they knew all the facts.

Anyway, I've said my piece. Not sure how you'd ever be able to find mutually agreeable arbiters, but if it ever happens I'll stand by my offer--not because I'm defending Thal's actions, I just think he'd prevail in arbitration.
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Old 04-09-2019, 11:39 PM   #28
MasterOfPoo8
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

i cant remember if the backers had a contract so more so a hypothetical question.
but if they did.. would this new "agreement" in your mind trump the original agreement or not?

and it is a bit baffling you would think agreeing extorting could trump in arbitration.


i am curious where did the guys money go if he just recently binked that much.
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:32 AM   #29
valuecutting
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

I don't think arbitration would rule in favor of scamming a scammer, even if you can easily justify it morally. Arbitration shouldn't be a question of who is the scumbag, but rather who fulfilled their side of the agreement and who did not.

To be clear, I'm on the stables side, but I agree with auralex.
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Old 04-11-2019, 03:16 AM   #30
auralex14
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

Valuecutting put it more succinctly than I did, and I agree with his position. On the stables side, but think Thanos wins the arbitration.

Master, generally, yes. New contracts trump older ones.

Random aside: I'm not sure how I feel about these 'Ronnyisatheif.com' websites, although I recognize recourse is difficult in this industry should someone scam. However, I think it's wrong to have a bunch of pictures of Thanos' gf/wife/whatever plastered all over it. Is she in any way connected to Thanos' wrongdoing? Even if those were the only pictures you had of him, you could've cropped her out. Although I'm guessing it was done purposefully.

No one looks good here.
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Old 04-11-2019, 10:09 AM   #31
HU Staking Program
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

The reason this topic is so important is the huge precedent for poker staking. Asking an attorney's opinion without having them understand the staking industry removes their ability to give a legal answer. A legal opinion has to based on the precedent it sets.

auralex14, while I disagree with your opinion, you have been reasonable. I think we both agree that a better solution would have been that Thanos sent us back the $3,000 he agreed he stole and then we did arbitration over the $7,000.

Thanos refused that. He knows he would owe the full amount from any reasonable option so he refuses them. He finally gives two options (with duress), both hugely in his favor. Either take a fraction of what he owes, lie for him, and clear his name, or get nothing.

This is not a unique situation that only has 2 possible options. These are the only 2 options because Thanos refused anything else.

In the biggest online poker forum, you are advocating a player getting away with following:

- Going into makeup
- Multi-accounting to dodge makeup
- After caught multi-accounting, stealing from their backer
- When they aren't dropped over stealing, breaking their contract and quitting
- As they quit, stealing from their backer again
- Paying back less than 3% of the money owed over the next 18 months
- Cashing for over 3x the amount owed and not contacting the backers about a payment
- Extorting the backer with a "take it or leave it" demand with any offer he wants

I'm not saying that you are ok with him doing it, but you are advocating him getting away with it.

With the same idea in mind, we are not at all saying it's ok to lie to a player in order to get them to make payments. We are saying Thanos vetoed any reasonable options. With the very unique specifics of this situation, lying to Thanos was obviously the least unreasonable option.
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:59 AM   #32
Thalampro
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by HU Staking Program View Post
The reason this topic is so important is the huge precedent for poker staking. Asking an attorney's opinion without having them understand the staking industry removes their ability to give a legal answer. A legal opinion has to based on the precedent it sets.

auralex14, while I disagree with your opinion, you have been reasonable. I think we both agree that a better solution would have been that Thanos sent us back the $3,000 he agreed he stole and then we did arbitration over the $7,000.

Thanos refused that. He knows he would owe the full amount from any reasonable option so he refuses them. He finally gives two options (with duress), both hugely in his favor. Either take a fraction of what he owes, lie for him, and clear his name, or get nothing.

This is not a unique situation that only has 2 possible options. These are the only 2 options because Thanos refused anything else.

In the biggest online poker forum, you are advocating a player getting away with following:

- Going into makeup
- Multi-accounting to dodge makeup
- After caught multi-accounting, stealing from their backer
- When they aren't dropped over stealing, breaking their contract and quitting
- As they quit, stealing from their backer again
- Paying back less than 3% of the money owed over the next 18 months
- Cashing for over 3x the amount owed and not contacting the backers about a payment
- Extorting the backer with a "take it or leave it" demand with any offer he wants

I'm not saying that you are ok with him doing it, but you are advocating him getting away with it.

With the same idea in mind, we are not at all saying it's ok to lie to a player in order to get them to make payments. We are saying Thanos vetoed any reasonable options. With the very unique specifics of this situation, lying to Thanos was obviously the least unreasonable option.
1. I never multiaccounted to dodge make up. how can i dodge make up even if i play with another account other games other than spins?

2. you didnt caught me multi accounting, i told you so by myself because i needed reload for spins. (i had already taken the 3300 from the account)

3. Is it true or not, that i started to pay you back 100 per month and you declined it after 3 payments because it wasnt enough for you?

4. im gonna find one more guy to put in 25% plus auralex's 25% and im ok putting the 50% for doing the arbitration, im not afraid of it of course.
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:13 PM   #33
Bobo Fett
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalampro View Post
1. I never multiaccounted to dodge make up. how can i dodge make up even if i play with another account other games other than spins?

2. you didnt caught me multi accounting, i told you so by myself because i needed reload for spins. (i had already taken the 3300 from the account)

3. Is it true or not, that i started to pay you back 100 per month and you declined it after 3 payments because it wasnt enough for you?

4. im gonna find one more guy to put in 25% plus auralex's 25% and im ok putting the 50% for doing the arbitration, im not afraid of it of course.
:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Something that I noticed when I moved these posts here, that I missed before - the post that the OP is replying to in the first post is from over a year and a half ago. I mention that in case anyone else wasn't paying attention to that part, as I wasn't. I had thought HU Staking had brought this up after their agreement, but clearly it wasn't.

OP, it would appear that you agreed with HU Staking that you had stolen $3,300, but refused to pay the remaining $3,000 until they agreed to remove all references to this dispute - is that correct?
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Old 04-12-2019, 06:49 PM   #34
Thalampro
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
:
we made a deal and when they broke it, i posted here again.
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:08 PM   #35
Monteroy
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

You could have just said "yes" to Bobo's question to save time.

The arbitration thing, if it ever happens, is an interesting scenario of a deal to recover otherwise unrecoverable stolen funds. However, regardless of whether the arbitration takes place and who wins, never let that distract from what you did - you stole, and then you offered to pay back money you stole (when confronted) only if certain unreasonable conditions were met.

You managed to make the act of paying back stolen funds look about as bad as actually stealing the funds.
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Old 04-13-2019, 07:21 AM   #36
Thalampro
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
You could have just said "yes" to Bobo's question to save time.

The arbitration thing, if it ever happens, is an interesting scenario of a deal to recover otherwise unrecoverable stolen funds. However, regardless of whether the arbitration takes place and who wins, never let that distract from what you did - you stole, and then you offered to pay back money you stole (when confronted) only if certain unreasonable conditions were met.

You managed to make the act of paying back stolen funds look about as bad as actually stealing the funds.
I didn't manage to do anything. My intention was to return the funds i took from the account and i offered a deal which they accepted
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Old 04-13-2019, 10:08 AM   #37
Monteroy
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

So - if they said they would remove their website and such only if you paid the full amount you owed (the 3K you stole and the makeup) - you may have not been happy, but you would have still sent back the 3K you stole? Feel free to answer yes or no to that direct question instead of the evasive way you typically use to reply to simple questions. Not that hard, give it a try. Yes or no. Don't say something evasive like "that is not what they offered," simply answer the question with a yes or no.

Seems strange if you say yes, because if you really wanted to pay back what you stole out of the goodness of your heart then you would have made the effort to contact them to do so after you won enough money.
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Old 04-13-2019, 04:31 PM   #38
Bobo Fett
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalampro View Post
we made a deal and when they broke it, i posted here again.
I already knew that, thanks.

It would appear that you agreed with HU Staking that you had stolen $3,300, but refused to pay the remaining $3,000 until they agreed to remove all references to this dispute - is that correct?
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:28 AM   #39
Thalampro
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
I already knew that, thanks.

It would appear that you agreed with HU Staking that you had stolen $3,300, but refused to pay the remaining $3,000 until they agreed to remove all references to this dispute - is that correct?
somewhat close. We were discussing about what deal we gonna make to end all of this, and they ended up accepting my deal that included 3k and erasing everything. They even took down the site "ahead of time" as they said, to fool me, just to edit it and get it up online again after i gave them the money.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:27 PM   #40
daviid
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalampro View Post
somewhat close. We were discussing about what deal we gonna make to end all of this, and they ended up accepting my deal that included 3k and erasing everything. They even took down the site "ahead of time" as they said, to fool me, just to edit it and get it up online again after i gave them the money.


you have an extremely interesting take on what „discussing“ means.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:22 PM   #41
Bobo Fett
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Re: Thalampro/HU Staking Dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalampro View Post
somewhat close. We were discussing about what deal we gonna make to end all of this, and they ended up accepting my deal that included 3k and erasing everything. They even took down the site "ahead of time" as they said, to fool me, just to edit it and get it up online again after i gave them the money.
So you never said that you'd only pay the $3,000 if they accept your agreement? And if that's the case, would you have paid back the $3,000 right away had no agreement been reached?

That last question is pretty much a rewording of one you seem to have missed from Monteroy:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
So - if they said they would remove their website and such only if you paid the full amount you owed (the 3K you stole and the makeup) - you may have not been happy, but you would have still sent back the 3K you stole?
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