auralex this is theft and blackmail combined into one man.. come on.
but i havent heard/seen much positive stuff from greeks online within poker. guess it wont change

I understand guys--I'm not defending his actions, I communicated poorly if that's how it came across. Although I think you meant to say extortion-

I just gave my opinion on how arbitration would work out. I used my experience with contracts and I know several attorneys, including a creditors rights attorney who I've chatted with about this. They all said a new contract was formed and $3k would settle the debt entirely based on the chat logs. They don't know anything about how the staking industry works, or if their are special rules that apply. They just know contracts. And we talked about the issue for about 2 minutes each. Perhaps their opinion would change if they knew all the facts.

Anyway, I've said my piece. Not sure how you'd ever be able to find mutually agreeable arbiters, but if it ever happens I'll stand by my offer--not because I'm defending Thal's actions, I just think he'd prevail in arbitration.

i cant remember if the backers had a contract so more so a hypothetical question.
but if they did.. would this new "agreement" in your mind trump the original agreement or not?

and it is a bit baffling you would think agreeing extorting could trump in arbitration.


i am curious where did the guys money go if he just recently binked that much.

I don't think arbitration would rule in favor of scamming a scammer, even if you can easily justify it morally. Arbitration shouldn't be a question of who is the scumbag, but rather who fulfilled their side of the agreement and who did not.

To be clear, I'm on the stables side, but I agree with auralex.

Valuecutting put it more succinctly than I did, and I agree with his position. On the stables side, but think Thanos wins the arbitration.

Master, generally, yes. New contracts trump older ones.

Random aside: I'm not sure how I feel about these 'Ronnyisatheif.com' websites, although I recognize recourse is difficult in this industry should someone scam. However, I think it's wrong to have a bunch of pictures of Thanos' gf/wife/whatever plastered all over it. Is she in any way connected to Thanos' wrongdoing? Even if those were the only pictures you had of him, you could've cropped her out. Although I'm guessing it was done purposefully.

No one looks good here.

The reason this topic is so important is the huge precedent for poker staking. Asking an attorney's opinion without having them understand the staking industry removes their ability to give a legal answer. A legal opinion has to based on the precedent it sets.

auralex14, while I disagree with your opinion, you have been reasonable. I think we both agree that a better solution would have been that Thanos sent us back the $3,000 he agreed he stole and then we did arbitration over the $7,000.

Thanos refused that. He knows he would owe the full amount from any reasonable option so he refuses them. He finally gives two options (with duress), both hugely in his favor. Either take a fraction of what he owes, lie for him, and clear his name, or get nothing.

This is not a unique situation that only has 2 possible options. These are the only 2 options because Thanos refused anything else.

In the biggest online poker forum, you are advocating a player getting away with following:

- Going into makeup
- Multi-accounting to dodge makeup
- After caught multi-accounting, stealing from their backer
- When they aren't dropped over stealing, breaking their contract and quitting
- As they quit, stealing from their backer again
- Paying back less than 3% of the money owed over the next 18 months
- Cashing for over 3x the amount owed and not contacting the backers about a payment
- Extorting the backer with a "take it or leave it" demand with any offer he wants

I'm not saying that you are ok with him doing it, but you are advocating him getting away with it.

With the same idea in mind, we are not at all saying it's ok to lie to a player in order to get them to make payments. We are saying Thanos vetoed any reasonable options. With the very unique specifics of this situation, lying to Thanos was obviously the least unreasonable option.

1. I never multiaccounted to dodge make up. how can i dodge make up even if i play with another account other games other than spins?

2. you didnt caught me multi accounting, i told you so by myself because i needed reload for spins. (i had already taken the 3300 from the account)

3. Is it true or not, that i started to pay you back 100 per month and you declined it after 3 payments because it wasnt enough for you?

4. im gonna find one more guy to put in 25% plus auralex's 25% and im ok putting the 50% for doing the arbitration, im not afraid of it of course.

:

we made a deal and when they broke it, i posted here again.

You could have just said "yes" to Bobo's question to save time.

The arbitration thing, if it ever happens, is an interesting scenario of a deal to recover otherwise unrecoverable stolen funds. However, regardless of whether the arbitration takes place and who wins, never let that distract from what you did - you stole, and then you offered to pay back money you stole (when confronted) only if certain unreasonable conditions were met.

You managed to make the act of paying back stolen funds look about as bad as actually stealing the funds.

I didn't manage to do anything. My intention was to return the funds i took from the account and i offered a deal which they accepted

So - if they said they would remove their website and such only if you paid the full amount you owed (the 3K you stole and the makeup) - you may have not been happy, but you would have still sent back the 3K you stole? Feel free to answer yes or no to that direct question instead of the evasive way you typically use to reply to simple questions. Not that hard, give it a try. Yes or no. Don't say something evasive like "that is not what they offered," simply answer the question with a yes or no.

Seems strange if you say yes, because if you really wanted to pay back what you stole out of the goodness of your heart then you would have made the effort to contact them to do so after you won enough money.

I already knew that, thanks.

It would appear that you agreed with HU Staking that you had stolen $3,300, but refused to pay the remaining $3,000 until they agreed to remove all references to this dispute - is that correct?

somewhat close. We were discussing about what deal we gonna make to end all of this, and they ended up accepting my deal that included 3k and erasing everything. They even took down the site "ahead of time" as they said, to fool me, just to edit it and get it up online again after i gave them the money.

you have an extremely interesting take on what „discussing“ means.

So you never said that you'd only pay the $3,000 if they accept your agreement? And if that's the case, would you have paid back the $3,000 right away had no agreement been reached?

That last question is pretty much a rewording of one you seem to have missed from Monteroy:

The 3k is money i truly owed so i would sent it even if no agreement had been reached but i didnt want them to know that of course. The fact is that they accepted and then defrauded me. If they didnt like my deal they could discuss more or just say no, not take down the site to convince me and then upload it again, thats gross.

The problem you have is that you are upset about being tricked (or whatever you want to call it) after you stole money, and after you were effectively holding stolen money as a negotiating tactic, and I can safely assume that until they contacted you that you were going to make no effort to contact them, even if you could pay back the 3K.

If you intended to pay back what you stole then you should have done that and then after doing that said that you wanted to discuss what terms were fair for removing the site etc. If you had done that then your position would be quite a bit more sympathetic if they refused to negotiate, because you took the initiative to pay them back without conditions in the first place.

The way you played it - it looks fully like you had no intention to pay back the 3K unless they agreed to your take down the site demand. You may say that you did not let them know you planned to pay anyway, but to be blunt - I do not believe that statement, and in the end you did everything you could to look like someone who was using the very common "I'm not paying back what I stole until you do xxx" demand that we see quite often in this forum.

Would they win an arbitration case? No idea, but I doubt anyone else will lose much sleep if they keep the website up either, so why don't you take the initiative for the first time in this situation and offer some form of partial makeup payment to properly settle your issues with them. Id suggest offering 30% for instance and see what they say and go from there, but in the end that is up to you and them what to do next in a much more transparent manner.

They have already proven they will welch on agreements, giving them more money would be absurd, since it is only logical to imagine they would welch again.

Nah. They were dealing with a guy who stole from them who was trying to angle shoot a deal by gunpoint to pay back money he stole. Weird spot, and there are a variety of ways of handling it, but in the end the person who did the "bad" thing is the guy who stole the money. Not that complicated.

He is not a sympathetic person who paid back money on his own initiative then asked for some favorable terms after that payment for his reputation to be restored. He is a guy who dangled out money he stole with conditions.

He should offer a fair deal for his situation for his reputation to be restored. Simply paying back stolen money in the way he did does not qualify, even if some form of verbal agreement was made. Again, maybe he wins an arbitration case (that will never happen) or he does not, but as played his reputation is as bad as it was before, so his choice to do something proper about it or not.

Buddy you dont seem to understand one of the most important things i mentioned, yet you or anyone that supports their tactics dont comment on it. Tell me your opinion on this. I started repaying 100$ per month which was all i could give, given the circumstances in my country and of course my responsibilities, yet after 3 payments they told me that they dont want to continue with this payment plan because its too little. Talk to me about this, and the fact that you say that i didnt want to repay, because your argument is non existent. i never stopped repplying on skype, i never stopped replying on emails. I never vanished. And the reason i didnt sent them right away is because when i took my part of the money is because i first had to settle some court staff with my ex-wife and when that was over and out of my head i would sent by myself.

your personal responsibilities (court issues) are completely irrelevant. you were obliged to pay back right away and you failed to do so. it really is that simple.

Sounds like you owe all sorts of people. Regardless, how they choose to handle situations like this is their choice, and it probably is not identical to how I handle it, but that does not change that you stole the money, and realistically only offered to pay it back while essentially holding it hostage.

Your choice what to do in the end. You can either try to negotiate a proper and fair settlement in good faith to essentially reset your reputation or you can choose not to and bring up court cases with ex-wives and unfair payment requests (of stolen money) which have nothing to do with your underlying issue in the end.

@Thalampro do u have any prove that @HU Staking Program accepted your offer to give them only 3k to rehabilitate your name? Any email, skype discution, etc
I dont know why @auralex14 said that you will win if u go to arbitration becuase u admit that u stole money from them, u admit that u have multi accounts . U will lose and if u had some character u pay what u owe... u are a high stake player who won 34k i a tournament...i dont think its a problem for you to send them 10k
PS: did u pay this 3k? @HU Staking Program did u receive this money?

maybe you can take a look at the 1st page of this.