Hello community, I'm playing as Vreju on Pokerstars. I had a thread before and I couldn't defend myself there properly. There were cases I didn't told, like i was move down playing 3r 180 man recover the 18k+ make up.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/61...dvice-1533598/


While back on my track, I told him I found a job and be back when it's better. So I came back last month and started grinding after they don't needed me anymore with the job. Since I have 20k make up I started to grind. Only the problem is, my contract stakes are play up to 22$ freeze outs and 5 rebuys. But Demetri move me down because he want to play it save to recover the make up.
A friend of mine told me, you are in deep make up and you can't play mtts, how the heck you gonna clear make up? Also you have no money for food and bills.
I had made a mutual deal with the backer, if I moved down in stake he would give me a pre chop monthly, that was months ago. Now he has stopped doing that and he made an new rule for horses that are in Make Up for months, that he is willing to give the pre chops only if they are up $1000+ in profits. The normal cut will be 60/40 if he like the horse. The other way is 50/50 when he doesn't like the horse and only 60% of the 1k profit can be pre chop. 40% will put back into make up.
So, I had a mutual deal with him for a monthly pre chop so i keep playing lower.
Fast forward. He don't give pre chop anymore if you don't make money that month.
So I asked to play back on my contract stakes, he said, I don't beat mtts. I said i will get a job and quit if I can't play it. So he threat me he will post on 2+2 with a negative feedback if I quit. But i said i don't quit i will get a job because it's not fair to recover 20k MU in 3r 180 man without mtts.
I sometimes have to ask to play mtts because i'm not allowed to play anymore since i have to grind in the 180man. Just recently i have to beg to add the $8 180man to the schedule only after coaching with another horse of him review my hand history.

Last saturday 7th november, i was asking for a reload. He was not nice to me and let me wait for 3 days till monday he reload me. He was acting like he have power over me and ask why I am only up 1k profits for this year. If i knew the answer then he was gonna reload me. I was so angry i feel abused and didn't replied. But still after 3 days he reload me.
nr 1 https://gyazo.com/f9f5a89c27dd607c5193c2e3065fdcc4
nr 2 https://gyazo.com/66b748c72f66abc66e30a32a32d5324e
nr 3 https://gyazo.com/5d191b1526d813f87e0c5523a247d6ed
nr 4 https://gyazo.com/cd475b997d37816e02cb8c2d1921a6f9
nr 5 https://gyazo.com/e5324e3d93838b05ae41c5f0a8a63c57
nr 6 https://gyazo.com/1ad57fad166212070942413171fd85fa
nr 7 https://gyazo.com/e6ffac900fb3da243f570b5f491eb89e
nr 8 https://gyazo.com/72ad72039a813a47dab749cf89837684
nr 9 https://gyazo.com/8226c8431ddd21b2b17db381c17378bb
nr 10 https://gyazo.com/7099157d7aa44eda8aa35179586b53c7
nr 11 https://gyazo.com/aa7a42574cc7f94bcf3a4c631645f537
nr 12 https://gyazo.com/c9471e26dd44486ae802fc3535af2fec
nr 13 https://gyazo.com/b7132e35c65e84d1674480cf82fdc6af
nr 14 https://gyazo.com/329dd3f348bf41da48c063317eeaeb7b
After that I played 1 day session and decide I tell him if I can't play mtts i will stop. And he could decide. After he didn't agree I send the funds back and update the total Make Up.
For me it's really hard to get a job in Romania, also I'm not allowed to get a new backer for other sites. Also I can't play proper games to clear make up. So i have no choice and I'm stucked. Also I can't eat if I don't do anything. I want to clear Make Up and leave and find a new backer. But if backer don't give me the chance to recover I just get stucked.


But in the contract I only backed for pokerstars, so why is he threating me I can't play somewhere else?
You can only play 180 mans up to $35 and MTTs up to $22 on a sunday you can play one $215 of your choice once the stake has started and not play any other games (unless I say so)or be staked by anyone else on the site I stake you on!
full contract: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...4&postcount=10
Please help me in this case what I should do. Thank you and sorry for my bad English.

What a mess. How the hell do you get to 20k make up?

Demetri reminds me of Chief Lutz from Beverly Hills Cop 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SLoG8B0HTg

Just so counter productive getting angry and talking to people the way he does.

A certain % of stakes are always going to bad its like spillages in a supermarket unavoidable. Also with your aggressive attitude its going to give bad horses unwarranted sympathy when they may well be in the wrong.

In the previous thread backer and horse pre-chop 1000 it's added to the make-up. So horse get $600 for cash out and Backer get the other $400 if the deal is 60/40 in favorite of the horse.

If the horse break-even for 12 months and they have pre-chop monhtly each $1000 then the calculation is easy. 12x1000=12000 in make up

Demetri is freeroll the horse when he should drop the horse if he think the horse is not making money anymore. It's ridic to put a horse in low variance games to recover the huge make-up. It can take years

Vreju, get your self a new backer if Demetri won't put you back in some decent games. This is pure slavery

lol@meatballs. It states pretty cut and clear in contract that if ure not beating the stakes the contract was signed for originally, u move down the stakes.

Pretty standard procedure, happened to me too couple years ago, even though we didnt have any contract with my backer at all, he was one of my best friends and helped me get out of debts at the start (35/65 deal btw but on HS mtts). Demetri didnt have to be a dick about it on skype, but w/e.a Veiru stop being a lazy moany bitch and start grindind and putting in work off tables.

pffffffffffffff

this guy is a joke, he has all the support and help needed to become a top player

he has had pre chops/loans to get him through tough times. He has had very good coaching. Plenty of help from the better players in the stable (most of them deleted him as he is so lazy)

He even told one of my horses he considered stealing from me cause times where tough for him

With all the above being said he has barely played 5,000 games in 12 months and made a massive $1,000 profit at low stakes

I have gone above and beyond for him

The previous thread sums it all up, so I guess this is a just a follow up

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/61...dvice-1533598/

most just laughed at him for the obvious reason

I am not fair how exactly?

He wants me to give him more loans for doing what ?

He wants to move up in stakes for doing what? (5k games at low stakes in 1 year and 1k profit, no study at all !)

He had plenty of incentives to work hard by the way, he was told if he does coaching and then does the correct study etc he will still get paid monthly

He did none of the above

Just to touch on the new deal he was offered

if he made under $1,000 in one month he could still chop it 60/40 him

If he made over $1,000 he could chop more, which was not great for me as he is a bad horse and I need his MU lower. But I would still let him chop but at a lower cut of 50/50

He would always be very abusive in chat because he was lazy and had no money. There was a time when I gave him the benefit of the doubt and gave him prechops/loans when was still losing

That all changed when I saw he refused to study and the vol was so low (5k games in 12 months, lol)

The reason his games got dropped was because his game was dropping all the time. I kept him in 180 mans as he was still a winner and can still make xxxx amount per month and get paid, whilst MU will come down slowly

He can move up stakes when he studies hard of and on the tables

He can get paid monthly if he studies hard and works of the tables and turns a small profit

This is one lazy SOB, 5k games in one year with 1k profit. All the players in the stable that tried to help him say he is lazy

Of course I get angry at him in chat. He was going to steal from me, he barley plays but bitches for money and never studies

Who would not get angry with this guy

Demetri,

you seem to put your horse in a spot where he could easily lose hope. That'd be bad for both of you. What do you think about allowing him to grind a Sunday MTT-schedule, incl the the SM, 55 Big and all the 22$ and lower red events, as long as he grinds x-times the amount for the Sunday-schedule in his bread and butter sit and goes.

How do you proceed with rakeback/fpp? If you give him all of that, he'd likely feel a bit more motivated to play 180's etc, since he'd have a small, but save regular income.

Straight from the heart, I'd say you should tell him to only play red MTT's at x-stakes, and grind the 180's that he is still winning in decently.
Maybe horse is just playing really well with -25bb, so allowing him to play up to 22$ reg-speed MTT's but up to like 55$ Hots - plus some higher on Sunday - could make sense. Just talk to me about where he feels most comfortable, if you haven'T done that for a while

If you don't want me to add my opinion ITT anymore, please just tell me, and I'd stop. Other than this backer of the 3$ spin playing horse - who was a greedy scum - I respect you. Good luck with this

This is one of my better players commenting on him....

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...1&postcount=17

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...8&postcount=29

and this sums it all up tbh

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...9&postcount=31

Just so you all know what he is doing here, he is looking for a freeroll.

He wants me to give him more FREE money without working for it

He wants to play in games he can't beat on the hope that he gets lucky

and he wants the MU to be void so he can run to another backer and pull the same stunt (he knows if he does that now I will make a thread and he won't get backing)

This is a guy that does not work on his game, if you are not working on your game your game is slowly declining

You are now talking about 100% gambling throwing him in on sundays which will cost him/me 1-3k every sunday on the hope he gets really lucky. Even then with his game being below avg he might blow it

I told him work hard in your current games on and of the tables and you will get paid when you profit and then i will move you up

He gets 60% of his RB to, what is the problem with the above?

This is life not poker, you start at the bottom and work your way up. Telling another horse that he will steal from me and then never working on your game and playing an avg of 200 game per month does not cut it, sorry

So, how did he get into 20k make up?

There was another issue as well with him

He stole money last year from the stake.

He took money out of the stake WITHOUT asking me. I then asked for a random audit. So he then does not want to give me the audit, I finally find out he took money out of the stake without asking

He claims it is not stealing because a friend was going to send it back to him. The friend did not send it back btw and he only came clean when I asked for the audit

If I never asked for the audit would he have told me about this?

If you cashout money without asking is that stealing?

All the above can be proved with skype screen shots if he tries to say it did not happen

This guys has tested my patience big time!

When I was letting him pre chop on the promise he will work hard etc

It never happened. (the hard work i mean)

But as far as him getting paid NOW he can just ignore the MU, it is not a problem....

He knows this, if he makes 2k this month 1k gets chopped 1k goes to MU. But he has to work hard on and of the tables for this to happen instead of coming here and bitching to you guys.

Not studying seems odd, if you offer him good people to talk strat with. (-1 for him)

60% of rakeback is... more than half. Should be some motivation, I think. (+0.5 for you)


Which 180's does he beat?
If he beats them up to 35$, you should definintely put him in all Hots and Hotter there are, plus regular turbos up to 55$, imho. Hots are definitely softer than 180's at same stakes, and other than a SM that needs +10 hours of great focus, your horse can score big within less than 5 hours. I'd go out on a limb and say his shortstack skills are really good, since he beats 180's, as you said.

I myself started playing more nlhe-mtt in my downswing (usually mixed/omaha), and the Hots are really soft up to 33$, and give alot of hope to score big (and I did, despite not being a 180'S crusher). No reason to not let your horse play those 1,10$-33$ Hots, even if he only beats 7$ 180's, I think.

Afterall, I must add that moving him down seems wrong to me, in general. Might read your contract and other info tomorrow to find out if that's appropriate/had to be expected by him when you started the deal.

All he is doing is recovering the money he has cashed out

Yes at lower stakes, cause he is so lazy and I don't want lazy horses in higher stakes

He has all the support needed to move up. Pre chops/coaching/good advice/all the software you need on and of the table added to the stake

If he does as I ask he moves up. Avg 200-400 games per month this year and no work of the tables is not what I want

So he must stay in the games he beats until he proves otherwise

wonder why this always happen to demetri. you must be really unlucky man

Give him a few baits, maybe?
Like, he can play Hots up to 33$ whenever he reached xxx games per month, or is allowed to play one Sunday Million for every x hours of study he puts in with one of your coaches/horses or so.

You are very wrong here. Some of the games you quoted above have 30k+ swings

You think I want a guy that plays 200-400 games per month and does not work of the tables in games with 30k-50+ swings!? (madness)

Hopefully someone else comes in here and backs this up, but trust me on this I have backed over 300 horses

$3 180s have the lowest swings and he just about beats them, of course he can move up when he proves himself

But having this type of player in anything else is not only bad for me it is bad for him to.

You have it in your contract you can lower a horses stakes for this exact reason....

they are lazy and don't work on there game, there HH are a mess. They can't afford big swings as they need pre chops EVERY month etc etc

Do I need to go on?

(oh and they stole in the past and threatened to do it again)

tbf demetris rules around prechops etc seem really generous even with the new rules. OP you want it all but are not willing to work for it

over 300 stakes , 3-4 problems life time

and did u read everything here?

I am really the problem here?

early in the year he and the rest of the stable got this message ....(some of the message is missing, I don't want to bore you all. I have just put in the bit that you need to know for this case)

So all the above leads to me pre chops. Me paying you a chop of your future profit. The main problem here is some are not making any money, why is this? Well read all the above again, it is all there.

Of course I will do pre chops when someone is in a obvious down swing for a few weeks months. But when that is over 6 months and you are losing each month we all know it is not just a down swing. As explained above.

Also take note I am not a charity, I work hard to get you winning but I cant just hand you money each month when you are constantly losing for more reasons than variance. That has actually worked against me with some, some know they are getting money each month and are happy to play break even to slight winning poker knowing I will pay them

Anyway,that all stops now. Your options going forward are....

You can chop 60% of what ever you have made that month and the other 40% will go to make up. The 60% you chop will be chopped with me 50/50 with me.

e.g ....this month you make $10,000, $6,000 gets chopped 50/50 and the other $4,000 goes into make up (I will work out what you made at the end of each month via audits. There is no min or max you have to make)

Your other option is to chop $1,000 every month 60/40 you, only if you make at least $1,000 that month. If you don't make any money you don't chop any money (the max on this deal you can chop is $1,000, the rest goes to make up, but you do get 60/40 cut)

Of course I have horses that I do chops with some months that have made good money for me and they work very hard with decent volume at the tables. But they will only have a few losing months. So pre chops work. Pre chops do not work for lazy/losing horses over a long period, for the obvious reason

So as you can read above if you want to make good money this month and every other month you know what to do. You all should know by now that you can make good money at low stakes, i can send charts of 20+ guys that are doing it right now. How do they do it? I explained above, now it is your turn.

Just for the record, when you get the right balance with volume and study and your rush cuts in you will be making good money. Your games can move up slowly and you can maybe go back to chopping $1,000 per month at 60/40 in your favour. This is on you how quick it happens, not me

No, you're cool, Demetri. Way different than a few years ago, or so.
People usually get it backwards online. As seen in the 3$ spin thread where people where in favor of the backer stealing as much as he can of the horse...but here, where you basically paid your horse a monthly wage for break-even grind over a year, they attack you... I respect you a lot for your new found cool, as well as the so far generous help for your horse.
Just ignore the ignorant0-troll

I remember reading the first thread a while back and thinking that Demetri is an idiot for speaking the way he does to his horses/threatening them (and I still believe that to some extent), however, it's quite obvious this horse needs to prove he can be trusted to move up. The situation sucks on both sides but if I were the horse I would try to come to an amicable solution whereby if I play X volume and do Y studying in a month for the 180s then I will receive a cash out that covers monthly expenses.

The makeup needs to be completely forgotten about for the time being if what OP says about needing money to live is true. He needs to suck it up and work hard, prove he can work enough on his game to be a winner and to put the volume in. I think Demetri needs to offer some motivation for the future in terms of "providing you do that for 3/6/X months we will look at adding in XYZ games into your contract". I imagine it's easy to get pretty disheartened with grinding if you're in that much make up playing the stakes he is but OP needs to realise that he's been helped out by Demetri in the past and the least he owes him is some hard work, which costs nothing financially.