Oh I agree just as you can be mad that Nigerian Prince that you wired transfer cash to so he could transfer millions to your account was a scam.

Honestly I'm surprised more people don't do stuff like this. Seems to be the most effective way of collecting. Hate to say it but violence and pain get **** done. Also make scammers scared ****less of doing it again.

Sounds like Zach did not pay taxes on the original $8500 like he should have. Even if you had a tax deal you would only owe him the tax on the $8500. That is all he got from the original deal. Thats all he should be paying tax on. Do not threaten to call the IRS on him. That might be considered extortion. You can not really say, "pay me or else I will do damage to you". If you want to make this threat, get a lawyer to do it properly. Lawyer know how to word these things.

You need to write him a receipt for the $16,000 (or how ever much he pays you) and he should write you a receipt for $8500. You guys can use these receipts as a tax deduction. You will need to pay taxes on what ever you get from him -$8500 you paid him.


Zach should be paying tax on $8500 and not withholding any $$$ because he got paid and his taxes should come out of the money you paid him. This tax should have been payed the year you payed him. It's not your problem he did not pay his taxes.

OP should be paying tax on $7500 profit.

Yes lol

wat

The tax part of their conversation seemed very brief and almost brushed aside as they made this transaction. Why it was not hashed out before he sent the $8500? Any CPA could have answered this question prior to the deal being made as to what the tax implications would be for both parties. Sucks he didn't get what was discussed, but I would be happy that you got anything at all.

No one goes to jail for not paying taxes unless they decidedly choose not to pay. Once audited (which can take years before the tax form is reviewed), wages get garnished and bank accounts get levied, or a long term payment plan to the IRS/State.

Isn't that assuming that Zach's FTP funds were all gambling profit? What if his$16,000 in FTP was just a deposit that got trapped in limbo? Are taxes to be paid on returned deposits?

Thank you for your inputs.

a. paying someone to beat someone up for whatever reason is pretty big law NO, NO and you can loose couple of years of your life at best for doing it. At worst you will have FARGO situation.

b. At the time of the deal I did not even think I could be paying taxes on the money because the deal is 16000$ for 8500$ and that is pretty straight forward. After that I tough taxes might be payed for that money, so i asked him if he paid tax on that money. He said no, how could he, when it was not the end of the taxing season(or whatever was used here). I asked what he is going to do about the taxes. He said that he had a losing year that year and that is why he would not have to pay taxes on that money. I told him ok and the taxes were not discuses anymore.

c. there is many ways this can get resolved, but there has to be interest from the second party. Which there is none of.

d. Obviously I put allot of thrust in the second party when doing this deal and that was my mistake.

If anyone have any legal suggestions how to proceed I would love to read them. Thank you! I was thinking about simple website that would be Google search optimized with details of this event.

It's possible the guy is confused about the taxes and will find out next time he files his return that he doesn't owe as much as he thought and he could then pay you the rest of the money. I don't know if that is realistic at this point, but maybe there's a chance.

I don't think you have any realistic chance at pursuing legal options.

Pressuring him by putting him on a scammer website is an option but I would probably just wait until he pays his taxes and see if he pays you then. You can always proceed with the website option at that time.

I don't understand the "he only needs to pay tax on $8,500 crowd". I could be wrong, but....

He was cut a check for $16,000 which the government is well aware of. I don't think they care what his business dealings were prior to that regarding the sale of this money, all they care is that he received a check for $16K in his name and that is taxable to his name in that amount.

The guy certainly owes you the $4k but in this situation you may as well just write it off. Hiring a lawyer and taking it to court would cost you far more then $4k, even if you were in the same country. Consider yourself lucky that he sent you the other $12k, and think of how much more pissed you'd be if he ****ed you all together.

You are

There is often times a difference between how much tax you legally owe and how much tax the IRS thinks you owe.

Its very common for employees in jobs where they are paid cash to not pay their full tax (like waiters). Sometimes it works the other way where the IRS sees money it thinks is income but isn't actually income. Zachary Parker, the scammer from this thread, only owes tax on $8500, not 16k - assuming he didn't pay taxes already and/or that $8500 wasn't just his own money he deposited.

A signed contract wouldn't do OP any good. The chat transcript he posted is probably perfectly sufficient to establish a contractual agreement. The reasons the legal system will be little to no help to him are these:

1. It's not clear which jurisdiction he should pursue this in, considering it's an agreement made in Thailand between an American and a Slovakian.

2. It's not worth the expense or the effort to try to sue someone for $4k.

3. A judgement against a broke guy doesn't automatically mean you get anything.

Who on earth would be scamming and send anything other than nothing at all. I clearly explained myself, and he admits to having a conversation about handling the taxes, which he grossly misrepresented. I told him I hoped I wouldn't have to pay taxes on it, and that if that were the case he would get the full 16k. I did not scam anyone.
Tomas knew I had schizoaffective bipolar disorder and had not yet paid taxes on it with plenty of time to back out of the deal.
Added to all of this is the very real fact that I was months deep in a depressive episode when we made the deal, and my correspondence later was made while having a fullblown months long schizophrenic episode. I would likely have been more cordial if not having to contend with a constant stream of paranoid schizophrenia episodes. But, I would have been firm that he eats the taxes no matter what. I do not believe that is a scam. It is common sense. He made a large profit on the deal already, and I made it clear that A) I would settle up after I pay taxes for this year, and B) If he harassed me I would not pay anything. Telling someone not to harass you is not a scam. This will be my only post in this thread. I am officially requesting the thread get taken down for being unreasonable character assassination as well. I do not know how to formally request this, as I never use 2+2, but hopefully whoever moderates this realizes that labeling me a scammer for having a clearly explained plan to deal with taxation is absurd.

It's not really relevant whether or not he has already made a profit. Obv the reason the funds are discounted in the first place is that there was risk and waiting involved.

some relevant excerpts from this thread:
The reason being that although he did collect on his 16000 he had already sold it on for 8500 to (I assume) a foreign resident so his taxes are just on the 8500? If so, what is to stop US poker players selling on their winnings at a discount to players in no GAMBLING tax jurisdictions such as the UK - for example by making up staking agreements?

Sorry, what I kind of mean is that if Zachary just tells the IRS "I know I got 16000 but because of a deal with no contract I shipped it to some Slovak guy in return for 8500" are they not going to cause a whole load of problems? - because I would if I was running a tax office so as not to be exploitable.

It's possible the guy is confused about the taxes and will find out NEXT time he files his return that he doesn't owe as much as he thought and he could then pay you the rest of the money. I don't know if that is realistic at this point, but maybe there's a chance.

I don't think you have any realistic chance at pursuing legal options.
I don't understand the "he only needs to pay tax on $8,500 crowd". I could be wrong, but....

He was cut a check for $16,000 which the government is well aware of. I don't think they care what his BUSINESS dealings were prior to that regarding the sale of this money, all they care is that he received a check for $16K in his name and that is taxable to his name in that amount.

I feel this pretty much sums it all up. Last post for real this time

Lol, do you really think ur lame excuses will get you out of this? Your taxes are your thing, at no point were they part of the deal. You scammed him.

You bring great shame upon your ancestors. Enjoy getting your reputation getting rightfully tarnished for a few thousand dollards

(repost from Phuket Poker facebook group)

Zachary Parker

I told you I would pay everything that didn't go to taxes in full after I got everything set with my accountant after this tax season. I also told you if you continued to harass me I would not pay anything. Starting a 2+2 thread about me being a "scammer" certainly constitutes further harassment. i was not playing a card when I said I am mentally ill, I was legitimately in the middle of a months long depressive episode when we made the deal. We did a very lax job of establishing what would happen with the taxes. You certainly told me I could withhold money for taxes once you realized I had not yet paid taxes on the money. I certainly said I did not think it would matter. I do not think that absolves you of having stated that if needed, I could withhold money for taxes. The fact that we didn't even discuss this till after we made the deal shoes how lax we were. You could have called it off then and gotten no argument. You could have called it off when I told you I had a mental illness and gotten no argument. You did none of this. How on earth would I declare 16k of income in a year when I had no money? The idea of paying taxes on money I literally do not have the year of black friday strikes me as absurd. The idea that paying 12k of 16k and directly stating that I would give any remainder back after I had straightened out all my taxes on it is absurd. You had all of the relevant info long before the deal was set in stone, and you did not back out. I spoke to a lawyer, and his exact advice was to post just this #ignored I am going to do exactly what I said I would do if harassment continued, which is to not pay. I feel entirely justified. I know you have no legal recourse. I also feel that I was straight up with you and you did nothing with the information. You never asked how I would deal with you wanting to back out, you never intimated you wanted out of the deal. In my mind I have treated you fairly, as you have been an aggressive creditor and I have no legal obligation to pay you anything. A one sentence agreement on facebook is not a real contract. The fact that you put aside our conversation about taxes as being interpreted as me saying I would eat the taxes no matter what is entirely fallacious. You are entirely out of line making this a 2+2 thread at the outset, and that is where this ends. Reblocking you as soon as I finish this post, and I will not discuss any of this with anyone from the Phuket community in the future. The idea of making a website dedicated to a perceived one time 4k scam that the perpetrator does not in any way view as a scam, and that none of my family and nobody in my life outside the Phuket community thinks of as a scam, is laughable. Do your worst. I have already discussed this issue with all of my bosses, and they in no way reprimanded me or lessened my responsibilities at work. I have never once done an interaction financially through 2+2, and talking **** about me there for a perceived slight is petty and unwarranted. I find you, Tomas, to be petty. You have acted as though your having a conversation with me about the withholding of funds for tax purposes was acceptable if necessary. If you just waited till the tax season ended and saw whether I had been straight up with you, I would have some modicum of respect for this effort. As it stands, I am disgusted with you and there is a 0% chance you see any of the remaining 4k, as I told you explicitly that continued harassment would in no way benefit you. In short, **** you. Phuketeers, feel free to talk **** about me. I have no intention of ever returning to the Phuket community regardless. It was not a healthy environment for me. This thread is not productive for anybody. End rant


Tomas Samol(my replay)

1. I tried to discuss this with you in private. I tried to bring people from outside to make a judgement, your friends, but you refused. You just blocked me, said that I am harassing you (by asking for money that you own me) and gave me no options. 2. You are saying that your friends, family, bosses and lawyers are on your side and agree with you. And that can be right, because they got only your side of the story. 3. I had not option of backing out of the deal, after I gave you the money, because 2000$ of that went to Patrick for your debt, and you lost like rest of it in few days after in poker if you remember correctly. 4. At the time of agreeing to our deal there was no mention of taxes and no mention of your mental health(my fault for not doing my research) 5. You are acting like a child putting, your arms on your ears and loudly screaming ''NANANANANA, my friends tell me that I am right and you all are not my friends.'' 6. I don't agree that we made a lax agreement. The agreement is very clear. Only after that taxes came out, and you said you will need to pay money on the taxes I offered to help you, with paying part of it, with no obligation to do so!

And yes Ike, thank you for your post. I agree 100 percent.

well he's got you

what a dog parker is. he owes you the full amount, without question.

the "further harrassment so you get nothing" line is illustrative of the extent to which he is a scamming lowlife. hope some bad **** happens to him.

Zachary Parker:

Taxes are a contract between you and government of you country. Other people have no business knowing about it, asking about it or caring about it.


He probably has legal resource but the way to make it most likely that you won't have to legally pay your debts is to ignore him and hope he won't sue. That's why your lawyer gave you the advice.

You also accepted very real 8.5k USD and confirmed you owe 16k if FTP is back.
It counts as a contract.
You make a deal in a gambling world so you ask people from gambling world to settle any disagreements. People outside of gambling world are bound to make bad judgements about deals in the world they know nothing about. Treating opinion of your family/people in your life as definitive judgement on the case while they haven't even heard the whole story (only what you told them) and have no clue how deals in gambling world work just shows you are looking for any excuse to not pay money you owe back.

The thing with deals in gambling world is that often if you decide to just not pay the other side don't have many resources to force you to. Legal system is slow and expensive, sometimes impossible to use because of jurisdiction problems. The mechanism protecting against people who decide to just not pay is reputation.
So you are right that there isn't much OP can do to force you to pay. You reputation will be rightfully tarnished for that though.

If you really feel you were wronged here you should agree to adjudication by people from poker community preferably not connected with you or OP in any way.

You also have no right to say things like "I pay 12k or nothing" or "be nice to me or I won't pay". You agreed to pay long time ago. Any changes to that contract can only occur if both parties agree not when you feel like it.

"be nice to me or i wont pay"

instantly know you are scamming scum.