From time to time, we have posters that lost Marketplace Approval for past transgression(s) that later ask to have them restored - one of the tools we use when that happens is to create a thread like this and seek community feedback. It's not meant to be a democracy - IE, everyone votes whether to restore or not and majority wins. Instead, it's just meant to be a discussion and opportunity for feedback to help us make a decision.

For stusmiley, this is the thread in question:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...miley-1681112/

I expect that in the next couple of days stusmiley will start us off with some reflection on that thread, and some thoughts as to why he should get a second chance.

The purpose of this thread is for two reasons. I would like to have the privilege to potentially sell to investors again. More importantly, to apologise and acknowledge my behaviour and attitudes, relating to the thread in question.

I have already taken 18 months away from poker, which has given me time to reflect on past attitudes and behaviours, and make positive changes. Going back and reading posts in this thread, enables me to reflect on how unnecessary my attitudes and reactions to other people’s opinions were (many of these opinions to be very true). It also enables me to reflect on where I was then and where I am now. Nonetheless, I clearly took my privileges for granted.

Some unfortunate situations occurred at the time, however I understand these situations are generally self created and inflicted. I make no excuses for any of the events that unfolded, which in turn led to a lack of communication and delayed return of funds. I also make no excuses for any abusive remarks within the thread in question.

My reputation regarding honesty and trust has never been questioned ( a key component of the market place obviously). What is in question, is the manner in which I return funds and communicate with investors. Additionally the manner in which I conducted myself as a result. I take full responsibility and could not understand peoples frustration any better than now! The events that unfolded are still rather embarrassing to me. At least one or two high profile investors/players are acutely aware of my previous patterns. I will change these peoples opinions through my actions.

It is important I try to regain the trust of many investors and I hope they can realise the sincerity of my words. People do change.

I am open to any suggestions, moving forward, even in the event my privileges here are reinstated.

I would like to address any concerns or questions any investors and/or future investors may have. I need to take all necessary measures, in order to show I am a responsible member of the poker community.

I look forward to conducting myself in a professional and far more mature manner.

many regards

Stuart

That thread was awful, and it wasn't all that long ago.

Selling action here is a privilege. I'd rather see a lot more elapsed time before he's reinstated, and a history of better interactions with others. He's basically been gone from here ever since he insulted his backers...

This is pretty much what I was thinking.

IMO give him a chance to state ITT exactly how he will go about things next time he sells action, before writing him off as a leopard never changing its spots.

The main issues last time IIRC were that he didn't seem very bothered about keeping in regular communication with backers, nor about timescales of making financial transactions back to them and showed a general contempt for his backers and their feelings after they had helped fund his comps. Possibly didn't give very timely updates on results either.

If he can set out a plan of how he would go about things next time in respect of all of the above areas then he deserves a second chance IMO and may in fact be a safer person to back than someone who is hardly known at all but has no known black marks against them, yet.

E.G.
* I will post images of all entry slips within x amount of time of entering the comp.
* I will post tournament updates/results at least every 24 hours.
* I will set out in advance the likely timescales to make payments back to backers.

etc, etc, etc.

Basically, just make yourself as attractive to backers as possible so that their risk is almost entirely limited to the actual results of the comps and so that their stress, anxiety and aggravation levels regarding updates, payments back to them and any other associated issues are as close to zero as possible.

Poker and gambling does some strange things to people's mind set and behaviour sometimes.

It was that he appeared to be acting immaturely and seemed to be acting entitled and dismissive, that was really what upset people, and wasn't IIRC an issue to do with monetary dishonesty.

thank you for your response and opinion.

Literally everything you have said is completely on point.

I agree, that some sort of 'standardised plan, I would use moving forward, would be more than appropriate. This would show that any investors who 'may have residing question marks', will have more clarity on where their money is and when it will be returned. And obviously something any reliable player would and should do anyhow.

In respect to the return of funds (relating to this action). It was in Spain and this did complicate/delay funds.

In respect to everything else, ie regarding 'lack of communication' this was almost non existent for almost a week I believe . As I suggested, there was never any ill intention, simply taking my privileges for granted and allowing unfortunate situations at the time, get the better of me. Thus neglecting to communicate with investors.

Quote "It was that he appeared to be acting immaturely and seemed to be acting entitled and dismissive, that was really what upset people" . end quote

This added fuel to the fire for sure. Going back and reading some of what I said, I was actually surprised as to the extent I went with some of my words.
You are right, gambling and losing money etc etc can lead to dangerous paths. Although as I mentioned, I take full responsibility and no excuses. I am simply stating the facts of what happened and why my attitudes are different and will be moving forward.

One of the original posts suggested it hasn't been enough time.. 20 months without playing much poker at all and actually having more time to reflect on past destructive behaviour, seems more than reasonable.

I have and am still paying for mistakes I made then and prior to this period. Anyone in the industry who knows me, knows I have paid the price and am still finishing the process of rectifying my life and attitudes. I could not be more honest.

It is good to know I have had at least one compassionate response so far and one that summarises the sequence of events (from my perspective)

ty

i thought he handled himself exceptionally poorly in the former thread, i even think i posted this somewhere itt.

however i second the opinion that he deserves a second chance. if he is up for behaving more reasonably in the future cant be answered but he certainly knows his mistakes as he pointed them out himself very detailed. the only way to determine wether he belongs in the marketplace or not is if he can participate.

for future dealings he has to state when exactly people can expect responses/money/any sort of communication in a very detailed way at the latest. if he does so, honors his word and treats all investors equally (for instance not feeling entitled to treat smaller investments differently from bigger ones) id have no problem letting him post packages again.

It's very generous of 2p2 to consider reinstating marketplace approval for Stu--I wouldn't take the risk.

As an investor, I'd rather see a zero tolerance policy in place. That is the best way to protect investors. If a player knows that if they abuse their privileges that they will be taken away and never returned, that's the best way to get them to act appropriately. You should have one shot, and if you blow it, it's gone.

If Stu gets his approval back, will he have to bring up his past indiscretions so that investors can make an informed decision? I think that should be mandatory.

Also, regarding this particular individual--if losing some money causes him to go off the rails like he has in the past...should he really be gambling with other people's money? How can we be sure he's changed if he hasn't played poker in 22 months? Maybe after his first bad beat he'll lose his mind again.

He just comes across as very entitled:

You poor victim.

appreciate your feedback.

I am unaware if you know any of the details that occurred, but its probably best for you to not insinuate. I explained these things in the original thread. However, I think its best to stick to the main principles here, as all OP's have done so far above.

the last thing that crosses my mind with anything is victim mentality ftr. Obviously there would be three viewpoints here. 1 Agree to be reinstated 2 somewhere in the middle and 3 disagree. What I think and you think and anyone else is subjective. I did not and would not ever paint myself as a victim.

Regarding stating indiscretions, I am not sure personally. I paid back all parties immediately when I arrived in Australia. As one of the posters mentioned, a lot of why the thread blew up, was how I handled the situation. Which was very immaturely and poorly. The issue was communication and how I reacted to one particular investor. Nonetheless, what would be important is I state clearly timelines and clarity on everything. In some respects it may be more beneficial for everyone, that I include or touch on the main indiscretion, as I know for sure many regular investors would have read that thread. Only a smaller portion will read this.

I have no idea who has been reinstated for what and hasn't for what, but every situation is unique. Some people would be more inclined to give people second chances and some less inclined, its human nature.

Anyhow thank you for your feedback.

Thank you David appreciate your time and feedback. I completely agree and your last point has far more perspective when highlighted, the way you did.

cheers

Fwiw, when I was much more active in buying pieces of players for live comps and sometimes completely putting players into comps so effectively buying 50% at 2.0 Markup, at a time when I was a full time live cash grinder, it was very common, in fact the norm rather than the exception, that these players would bust and tell me nothing at all about how they busted and almost act as if the investment and faith in them/my willingness to help them out never even happened. Sometimes they would just storm out of the poker room without saying a word to me and never mention the tournament thereafter.

So I think it's pretty common as a default setting that many poker players develop a very selfish mindset as soon as they get the money and treat the backer as a thing rather than as a person. This is very likely the case even for players who outwardly follow all the conventions regarding communicating with backers and making payments in a timely and orderly fashion.

So I don't think we should be too sanctimonious as poker players in judging other players for their misdemeanours.

And if we are talking about buying pieces of players on this very forum, my biggest score doing this was for $12K, 2% stake in a $600K win and the player, a well known and respected one, took about 3 weeks to pay people out, the first 10 days or so of which they made no communication at all with any of their 2plus2 backers, and when they finally made contact the excuse was something like "oh, I had a lot of stuff to sort out first".

Most players do not give a $hit, it is all about the money for them and nothing else.

If a player can prove that they do care and their actions reflect this then they are a player worth backing because they will also care about their playing performance as if they are playing for the collective good and not just for themselves.

Thanks Mikey for your input. Looking to get this moving forward now.

Hey cramble. I know my antics were wild to say the least. I have spent a year doing personal development work.
I will get any testaments to this here if required.
My attitude in the past was impulsive, careless, entitled etc etc.
I do look to be part of the general community again. It has been good to take a significant break from the game for multiple reasons.
FTR as I hope you may know. The issues that were at question were revolved around a complete lack of responsibility. Which also coincided with obnoxious antics within the thread.
I look back at this period and know all the liabilities and issues I was responsible for, have taught me many many lessons.
There were no issues regarding trust, as this is clearly of the upmost importance here and in the industry.
I sincerely apologise and look forward to conducting myself in a way thats empathetic, responsible, professional and mature.

hey auralex. One year of personal development work. This has given me even more perspective on my past.
Self discipline is a key component now. I would like to ease my way back into the game in moderation. No expectations on peoples attitudes towards me, such as yourself. This can only really be achieved via action.
I am an honest person and in the hypothetical situation, I am reinstated, I will be voluntarily disclosing information of my past. I have to do this to mend my image.
Anyway I think thats enough for now. I will have references if need be. cheers

Hey bobo, it’s been over four years and two years since this thread. There was seemingly a 50/50 feedback with possibly some people unsure (time perhaps).

I am a completely different person now. I will be playing live poker again from this moment onwards. Selling action here is a privilege and I took it for granted.

I think it’s important to note that I never did anything dishonest. I was simply completely irresponsible in many ways.

I haven’t really played any live poker for four yearly essentially. Just some online cash on the side. I have been patient reforming my life. I have a small contingent of players that can attest to this in the community of need be. However I believe it is definitely fair to allow me back.

I will be transparent selling action as I did build an erratic image with many investors and that alone will make it difficult enough.

Many regards