how is it a scam when a horse loses and just quits? The point of being staked is playing without risks and the downside to staking is the possibility that you'll have a player that loses.

Having a second stake at the same time might be kind of shady but its perfectly understandable if its on a different network or a different kind of deal, its no worse than having a second job.

Those 'online' contracts are not really valid anywhere and people just agree to "not quit in makeup" to shut up the new breed of scummy stakers that can't take a 1$ loss like they should. I mean you're all making 10's of K's per month for basically doing nothing. The only time a stakee should send money back is when they play out of limit or spew/chip dump out of their own will.

I wouldn't call it a scam, but instead extremely scummy.
I've been in MU for 3 months now, the only reason I play 30hrs+ a week is so I don't leave my backers with a bunch of makeup.
Play your way out of makeup, or buy yourself directly out of makeup, these are the only two ways you should be able to leave a staking group.

FWIW there's nobody making 10s of Ks per month basically doing nothing.

Tim left out some details of this by accident
1. Volume was a fraction of what it should have been.
2. Played on his grandfathers account whenever underage, understandable but he should have explained that he was caught multiaccounting during the interview for our stake.
3. Lied about not understanding makeup, I conducted the interview myself and I specifically asked if he understood makeup which is said he did.
4. Lied about his brother playing on his account on the side (if this was true, it would not be constuited as a scam, just ******ely naive that he assummed we'd be ok with it), he infact doesn't even have a brother (I posted a screenshot of this in a previous post)and played multiple sessions higher than what we stake for with both our money from our stake and money he already had in his account before AND AFTER we expressed concern about him playing out of the stake.

Usually if the backers ends the stake, for reasons such as a player tilting off the roll by accident, not playing enough games etc I would think it's NOT expected for the player to have to cough up the remaining makeup out of his own pocket (Although the former is debatable), but in this case given the points above, I think it's a no brainer that he should have to send back the money.

I wonder what criteria you people use when deciding who to stake?
U conducted an interview with this guy and obv didn't see nothing that u found bad about him, even seeing that he was some kid u trusted him, did he have super stats or something?

Name: Anthony Lesceu (also has used Anthony Leceux Verheagen)
Email: Pokermailtb@gmail.com, anthonypokermail@gmail.com
Skype: rakeback4u
Date of Birth: 5/30/1990
Phone Number: +32474208153
Address: Zwarteberg, 28 Helemgem Belgium
2+2 name: lolrealjobs
Background: Was a professional counterstrike player from the age of 16-18. Has lived in Belgium and Malta.
Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/lesanthony123


Address: Rue Nanon Number 19
City: Namur (Zip code 5002)
Country: Belgium
ID card number: 521-0981546-66


SNs: "alfredo699" on Ongame. "I_haz_nuts" on E-net and microgaming and "I_win_flips" on E-net and Microgaming as well. "Itsthatway" on Full Tilt.

He came referred to us from another player we were staking that was a trustworthy player of ours. We also checked him out with another reference. We were staking him for NL200. He proceeded to go on a very large 55 buyin downswing. During this downswing we confirmed many of the hand histories and a lot of it just looked like he was running really bad. There was a 3 week stretch that we had not heard from him and then one day we tried to send him his rakeback and we found out his account had been closed for chip dumping. Merge informed us that he had 5 accounts on Merge (iwantmaney, koppieter8, elpadrinoofmulah, gtgame013, ihasnutzzz, ihasnutz) that he was using to dump funds between. There was at least $4,000 that was dumped. Prior to us staking him, we had his account restricted for w/d's and transfers and he got around that by dumping most of the funds to 3 separate accounts.

We approached Thony with the news and he admitted to it all. Here was his email back to us:

Hey Shane,

I dont know where I need to begin..Some time ago when I was doing pretty alright for myself I started playing a lot in a live hs cashgame where I was invited in. Was doing very good but then lost more or less all the money I had. The guy who organised the game suggested me that I could loan some money from him and was telling me that Ill have it back in no time etc.
Before I knew it Im oweing the guy around 25k euro. I had to leave my nice appartment cause couldnt pay rent anymore,started to work in a bar and had to change my life pretty drastic for paying the guy off. A friend told me that I should go back in playing online and just get a stake and things would work out itself. So started playing for you and things were going pretty bad,the guy who I owed money too knew that I was playing back online and demanded to get more money instead of the regular 1keuro I wouldve payed him each month.

So I was pretty clueless and needed some fast money and didnt know what to do. The friend who told me to get a stake runs an affiliate and he told me that he could help me out saying he had some accounts that never played on and I could just dump the money to him and he would send me the money. He did some stuff on my computer trough teamviewer as Ive never done such things before and felt pretty bad and really didnt know what to do. I shouldve just told you but its hard to think clear when your mind is being put in a box. I only dumped 1.2k euro not less not more. So I dont know where the 4k figure comes from and Im being totally honest. I also then got another stake at the pokerfarm cause I would need money for the next month and I wanst sure I could have a good month with you,so pokerfarm staked me. Then I got pretty sick and was only able to play like 10k hands for them and they kept dropping me in limits going from nl200 to nl100 then didnt play for them anymore.

I know what I did was wrong and wished I never done it cause its normally not me and would never do that for all the moral obligations. As you said that people do desprate things in desprate times. Life for me has been pretty tough and rough but that shouldnt be an excuse for what I did. I obv want to make all things right and will do whatever you have in mind and Im very sorry for everything,youve always been great to me and Im just very stupid. Poker has always been my bread and butter and now I ****ed it up and dont know what to do in my life anymore cause I owe this guy so much money. I know it might be hard to take an apoligy from me as i'm know labled as a thief and scammer and scum but Im very sorry and hope we can work things out.

Regards,

Thony

According to his staking agreement he owed us the money that was stolen, which we let him count just as $1,550 (1200 euros) as well as 50% of his losses since his actions had ended the stake, which was an additional $4,695.64. We eventually agreed to a payment schedule of $780.70 at the end of each month starting May 30th with the final debt being paid off by years end 2012. To Thony's credit, he did make the first payment. The second payment which was due June 30th was supposedly sent and then I found out a week later that it didn't go through. Thony explained to us that he gave the cash to a friend to send to us on Stars and that the friend had not sent it. That was as of around 10 days ago. It is now August 4th and we're missing both the June 30th payment as well as the July 31st payment and Thony has completely stopped responding to all emails. In our payback agreement I informed Thony that I would be posting all of the information publicly if one payment was missed and that if two payments were missed I would be creating a website similar to www.nickraineyisathief.com. I'm posting all of this information publicly now and will be working on the website this week.

After this situation we also found out that another staking group had staked Thony and he had lost an incredible amount of money in a very short time frame as well. It's unclear whether the money had been dumped or not but given his prior history I think it's safe to assume it was. Be very weary of this guy and stay far far away from doing business with him.


Also, here is another thread in which he scammed another 2+2er back in June 2011 with the same exact compulsive lying he's done to us:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1158


-Shane

Ah okay then yeah you are entitled to demand makeup gets paid then. Playing higher than stakes agreed is reason enough to snap terminate nevermind the lying about his non existant brother.

Name: Nick Stoof
Screenname: pokerstoof Pokerstars
Skype: nick.stoof
2+2: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/members/134013/

Owes me $125 for some months, said he would send it when he gets his salary. Vanished from skype and 2+2, came back some months later but didn't respond in skype or to my pm. Saw him searching for a new stake so i thought i'd mention it.

DO NOT STAKE:

Name: Anders Ljungkvist
Skype: Sprutan14
Location: Varberg (sweden)
2+2: alfaalfa
Screen Names plays on: Alfa79 (pokerstars), i_love_ina (ongame)

Anders Ljungkvist is a scammer and thief. Sent him a small amount to get him started on a 6-max SNG stake on stars almost 2 months back and have not had contact since. He plays everyday and has ridiculous volume for that level, definitely a reg on stars.

Full name: Maximiliano Stochyk Duarte

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...00-me-1227366/

A lot of people probably haven't seen this yet.

was gonna post some thoughts on other stuff that was recently posted in this thread, but seems like its all solved now (no payment, but people agree now it seems)...but, the above post is pretty sweet.


As for your first paragraph. how long do you think any backing market would last if people were able to jump from backer to backer? you think its fair for people to just walk out on make-up? Its beyond scummy to walk out on MU.

Having separate deals is fine. telling your backer would be nice, but not really required (unless asked). But, what isnt fine is angling the deals against each other. get in big MU in one deal, then just go grind the other and get cashouts there. its "legal", but pretty shady and scummy.

as for your last paragraph, sure, there are scummy stakers out there. they go broke, and are replaced all the time. they try and squeeze all the can out of each horse any way they can. is it right? nope. will they be in business a long time? nope. Are stakers scummy for going after the money they are owed? if i told you how much money i am owed, it would prolly make you throw up. And, which backers do you actually think are making "10's of ks a month"? you realize most people go broke staking... Staking is hard work if done right. it might not be like working a 9-5, but stakers are on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. i havent had a true day off for a year (time from black friday to when i moved abroad). and before that break, it had been like 18 months. I am by no means complaining because i love what i do and what it lets me do with my life, but to say its no work is ridiculous.

I would be shocked if there are more than like 5 groups making "10s of ks" a month (dont even know how much this really is. staking is hard. a lot of people dont do it right. a lot of people go broke doing it.


This thread has seemed to have gotten off track a bit (obv i didnt help) should keep it to just outing the scammers. I got a new one for you.

Fixel86 on stars
Felixh0401 on skype

Has 6k of ours in accounts and hasnt contacted us in about a month. he came on one day and talked to use and said he would send back, but hasnt been on for a week er so. he seemed drunk when he came on skype to chat with us.

WEC tweeted this link at me a while back, but I never got around to looking at it. Been very busy and out of the poker scene for a little while, but just thought you guys should know that I sent Adam's mother a Facebook message today telling her about both of these incidents and about the $1,000 that Adam stole from me back in June. I will post a response if/when I get one from her.

Sorry to read about this one. Fixel took backers (~$1.5k) money on Chip Me Up to the casino and degen'd it off a few years back

He eventually paid it back a year later, but my notes dont have the details and i seem to remember someone on site paying it for him and assuming his debt.

Anyway, hopefully you can recover your funds.

So true,it is amazing what people say about backers some time.If only they knew the truth ^^^

I use to think my 8 hour days where not to bad ,last 6 months I have not done less than a 12 hour day I don't think.

As for Sunday being the day of rest ,lol.More like the day of being shattered and feeling like cutting my wrist

Glamorous ah

Craggoo and I have reached a mutually satisfactory agreement. I'll keep the thread updated on if he keeps his end of the deal.

I believe he realizes he made a mistake and is trying to make things right. I owe a lot of thanks to 2p2 in general for having my back in this.

Overall I think craggoo is just an average guy who managed to make a couple bad decisions to put himself in a really bad spot and then felt that he had to keep defending himself instead of dealing with the situation.

Hey everyone, this is more of a preventative post about a player who seems to be a serial scammer. Needless to say, he is not the smartest fella either. At first, he applied for a stake through my site. He listed a screen name from Microgaming (I will post all name and player details below). The name he provided (icall8hi) has some solid 6max SNG stats on Microgaming, but was looking for a stake on PokerStars where, according to him, he has never played before. Then about 2 days later, I received another staking app through my site from the same country, but different name, email, and this time listing a screen name from Ongame (WorkFoBeer). Again, solid SNG stats but was looking to play on Stars all of a sudden. Well, this genius I guess didn't realize that the staking app he submitted also provides me with an IP address. Of course the IP address of both apps were exactly the same.

Furthering my detective work, I decided to investigate further just to be sure, and mess around with him a bit. It is standard procedure anyway to ask for screen shots of his cashier and to receive hand histories to confirm identity. He didn't have any HHs but sent me a beauty of a screen shot. It was the picture of his screen where it looks like he was about to create a new account where he listed the screen name as icall8hi, but of course didn't hit the submit button. When I asked that he share his screen with me so I can see him sign in and sit at a table, he suddenly became very exhausted as it was past his bedtime. So, it seems like this guy was stealing the poker identities of solid, winning players to apply for stakes in the hopes someone ships to him on PokerStars. Here is the info that he used to apply:

Application 1:
Name: Vaidas Šmoilovas
Email: zoomyou@inbox.lt
Skype ID: lopas.lopinskas
List all usernames/sites: Icall8hi at microgaming
Game Type: all sng
Buy-in Level: 10 dol
Games per Week: 2k
Why do you need a stake?: Forced to cashout all my BR on microgaming, looking for stake on other networks, for ex. pokerstars
References: Sadly, but none
Country: Lithuania
How did you hear about us?: Google
IP: 89.190.110.100

Application 2:
Name: Antanas Ugianskis
Email: centrasx@gmail.com
Skype ID: inlughshg
List all usernames/sites: WorkFoBeer at ongame
Game Type: 2 to 3 tables sng
Buy-in Level: 3dol to 10 dol
Games per Week: 400+
Why do you need a stake?: I want to move up in a limits, but it's increadibly hard to do in ongame network, so I want to move to Stars.
References: None
Country: Lithuania
How did you hear about us?: I don't really remember, but I know your site for some time
IP: 89.190.110.100

I mean, come on...change computers, countries, even how you list the buy in amounts (ie. 3 dol)

Clint


***********
mod edit (RW)
The same guy opened two new 2+2 accounts in late August.
SEE:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...l#post34580317

.

I've been trying to get in touch with everyone involved in this since Bogan4Life sent me the (partial) info over two weeks ago.. Only Kris has been in touch and anxiously awaiting a resolution. I'm on Skype every day for at least 10+ hours (and have PM'd everyone), so hit me back if you want to discuss... The Ball's in your court guys..

Bogan is awaiting a PM from Kris they were discussing an agreement afaik.

Bolded text: you have not got Me/Kev/Ben on skype, only Bogan and Kris - not sure who else you are trying to contact.

I do have you on Skype. You approached me and my partner for coaching/staking a little more than a year ago, (I had actually forgotten all about it until I searched you on Skype and found our old chats). Anyway, I sent you Skype PM's on 8/6, 8/7 and 8/11, all unanswered. I sent Skype PM to Bogan on 8/6, 8/7 and 8/11, he answered on 8/11 only to say he was grinding, so I told him to hit me later, never did.

I'm glad you guys are all working it out. Good Luck.

hey just reporting craggoo is also repaying me. Got first repayment last night. Seems to have turned over a new leaf. Prob best avoiding him still though

Sup killerkilbane. I can't even imagine the rationale for making up lies about me already making a payment on an imaginary debt.

Ah i remember you, sup. Anyway, new skype as my old one was deleted a few months ago, hit me up - "Syker12" on skype.

Name: James Gilbert
PS name: In2nettt
2P2 name: In2nettt


James was in MU of $200 and dissappeared for over two months. He hit me up on skype last week and I told him I wanted the $200 payed back. He asked me to stake him again and after dissappearing like he did I decided he wasnt trustworthy.

After that chat i had with him, I see he created an account and on 2p2 and is looking for a stake. He also deleted me off skype so stake at your own risk.

How about:

• skype name
• Previous account names (since this is not his 1st-likely MAer)
• Other info

Thank You

In2nettt on 2+2
I posted a warning in his staking application threads