Stars: Davidobaya
2+2: David Obaya

Player stole stake funds.


**Mod Edit: Issue resolved, funds have been repaid.

Hi Everyone,

We appreciate the feedback and genuinely look to improve every day. We decided to speak with two independent lawyers and get two opinions.

We're going to post what we got as feedback so that the community and other stakers know what that was.

The cliffs are that the websites if 100% true, are legal, however they do expose the creator to a potential lawsuit. The two main avenues such a site would create exposure are defamation and harassment.

To prevail in a case for defamation, the plaintiff must prove that statements are false.

Harassment is typically defined as stalking which these websites do not fall under, however the courts are currently broadening - not restraining - the scope of harassment.

Action against a site creator would be weak, but could be time consuming to defend.

We were advised to omit screenshots of discussions, and remove photos not taken in public.

For the time being we are deleting all websites until we have a better idea of what we want to do. They may go back up in the near future. Everything on all sites has always been 100% true, but we want to make sure everything is in order before we continue with this direction.

We're exploring other avenues as it's important for everyone in the MTT community that someone backed can't just exit an agreement and owe nothing. We could certainly use help with coming up with alternatives.

You have to take in consideration that canadian law / USA law will be different from european / backees local law.

Most first world countries provide quite a good law system thats quite accessible.

I can assure you that copying any photograph and republishing it (like the websites) are in violation of the copyright law at the least. Judges generally rule with a fine of like $100 a day for every day the photo's are up.

You're advised to remove photos that are not taken in public, because most law-systems have a sub-article stating you can copy photos and republish them when they have potential news-worthiness.

"We were advised to omit screenshots of discussions"
I'm not sure, but this seems the most legit thing to post, other than photos and personal data.

"To prevail in a case for defamation, the plaintiff must prove that statements are false"
This is clearly the other way around.

You are correct:
"Action against a site creator would be weak, but could be time consuming to defend"

Because there are so many different laws that apply to this matter, in reality most likely nothing will happen with anything created.

But how would you feel if all of a sudden all kind of alex carr and rob tinnion sites would pop up?
Im quite suprised that there aren't already actually. Cause this is the only defense backees in case have.

Name: Jesús Alfonso Sierra Miranda
Stars: A.sierra02

Alfonso has missed volume and study requirements we agreed upon for many many months. We gave him plenty of time off and opportunities. After many months of this we decided to part ways and asked for a repayment plan. We have not heard from him since (roughly a week).

I got a PM from someone asking me for a reference so it appears Alfonso has reached out to other backers.

*Edit* After checking my Email, Alfonso sent me a message there that in a tough moment he cashed out our funds. He has no money to repay at this time. Will update if anything happens.

even if he stole you are not allowed to post addresses in public wow for smart ppl some of you are dumb

This backlash against backers/stables is fascinating, what exactly are they (we) allowed to post when someone breaks the contract or steals funds?

privacy laws in the eu man seriously i hate thiefs all im saying is becareful someone might sue you one day breach of privacy laws and even shop lifters in the uk are not allowed to be outted in public let alone there info made readily available

an idea for you guys in the uk shops have a mug shot book witch is a private book with all shop lifters in it you guys could do that like or keep doing what your doing i mean just i think you are breaking some laws but its up to you

moshman etc should post the numbers involved, not just generically say he stole i think. stealing no amount is acceptable of course, but difference between $100 or $1000 or $5000 etc...

PokerStars: GeorgeAKK
Real Name: George Stanculete

George was referred to me by a fellow horse and there were several issues that took place during his short time with us (Started 9/16). He cashed out money on more than one occasion without consent, played games outside the allowed limits/contract after expressly being told not to, etc. He had said he was new to staking arrangements, so I forgave the offenses (the first time) as ignorance, but when it happened again I didn't have much of a choice but to drop him. The unauthorized cashouts was more frustrating considering I had given loans in the past. He actually cleared MU a few days later, and I proceeded to inform him that he would be chopping and then I would be ending the contract early.

He proceeded to get very upset because he felt I 'took away his job' and even asked another horse of mine if he should pay me back or screw me. He then insisted that he was extremely trustworthy, he had learned his lesson, and wanted a second chance. I declined.

Eventually he agreed to send back a portion of the money that I was owed -- only the amount he deemed acceptable, his tally of the money sent to him (and none of the profit). He insists that since I dropped him, I'm not entitled to the profit earned during the course of the deal. The total that was supposed to be sent was $4905 (as he made $4000 profit during the stake) but he only sent $2827, meaning I am owed $2078.

Oh, and one more thing I'd like to add -- Based on our conversation over Skype, I'm not sure he understands what he's done is wrong/stealing so if people wouldn't mind setting him straight, I'll link him to the thread and he can read about it.

Judging by his name, I would say he is Romanian. Maybe English is not the clearest language for him. The horse that referred him to you might be able to make it clear to him that what he is doing is wrong, no?

Implored him to speak with other people about the situation, including the horse who referred him, but I was told that I'm not "his daddy" and asking him to do so is somehow treating him "like a dog."

Doubt the wheel much needs to be reinvented here. Should Pocarr wish to invest more than the bare minimum of money and effort possible into player careers and to 1.5 years worth of work and time demanded beforhandedly when joining perhaps that'd be causing less than 20-30 players from the 150ish roster ends up outright stealing in the given quarter (+ the unpublicized ones that successfully lures the management into contract termination, as I'm sure there are some cases too)

Some of the quick ideas would be like:
- Monitor chats more often / sanction the rampant abuse from many angles
- Do initiate move ups based on work ethic as heavily suggested during the sign-up procedure in opposition to practically after scores
- Provide/get aid for IT security, as previously confirmed, its being an issue causing serious amount of losses on both the managements and the players side
- Make coaches to respond when contacted (meaning with something else than negligence and complete ignorance)
- Quality control over peer reviews
- Improve webinars on the technical side (picture latency, sound distortion caused by the ancient platform, its 2016 now, this stuff is cheap)

The list could go on and of course just talking by personal experiences here, understandably a corporations size such as Pocarrs spawns certain AnomalIes which makes it difficult to preserve integrity on the managements side, paying more attention on these would be a jump start in the right direction.

Hope this feedback might help some from an ex Pocarr "horse"

I have no excuses. I have a difficult situation with money. When i play for samuray poker , i explain guys i need this money this ( 150$)becausee was my last chance with one problem. I try to explain but They have not understood .I needed a week to send money back. I asked SJL 100 times to understand me but he not want. I had problem with money , repeat. I`m really sorry , I know, nobody understand me but i needed this money .
Guys, deed can not erase but I really sorry.

pokerstars: Jerybinho
skype:jeroen buls
name: jeroen buls
country: Beligum

We staked Jeroen for a long time and didn't have any problems with him as was a very good horse. The last 2 months we went on his first downswing, he was complaining a lot about even though his MTT game selection was bad. His volume declined a lot and when asked about it he said he was suffering from depression. 1 week later he admitted to withdrawing the $500 for his medical bills even though this can't proved he did do this without permission. if you he pays back the money withdrawn i'll update this post.

Name: Terence Bowles
Stars SN: "themottoeh"
email: terrencebowles@ymail.com
city: Surrey, Canada
FB: https://www.facebook.com/terrence.bowles.9





Terence approached me for staking at the end of August 2016. He wanted to play $5 and $10 9man knockout SNGs on Stars. He had a long-term winning record at the game so I didn't have much hesitation in staking him.

I sent him a $300 starting stake and he got off to a good start.

He was not especially communicative, but at the end of September he sent me a message on Skype telling me that he had taken out $500 and proposing to send the same amount to me by way of profit chop. Since he was around $1400 in profit at that time I didn't object and we had a coaching session immediately afterwards.

After this time communication became even more sporadic. The last contact was on the 14th of October, since when he has not responded either to e-mails or Skype requests for contact. He still holds the $300 stake money and is sitting on around $1500 worth of additional profit (half of which I am entitled to, under the terms of the staking contract).

He continues to play these games on Stars (for example playing $5 9man knockouts as recently as today).

I would advise against entering into any kind of agreements with this player, though if he repays the stake money and my share of the profit I will withdraw this complaint.

Name: Oscar David Mongelos Colturi
Stars: Fausto0484

He was playing for Pocarr Latina, but he didn't reach the minimum of games required per month. So we had to part ways. We asked for SBR + Makeup. He owe us a total of $648.50. We let him repay in 6x of $108.08. But after a month, he sent only $52.50.

Alex withdrew the money to party:

Hi. I withdrew $150(the bankroll) because I needed urgently for the end of my university years(festivity). I will make a deposit as soon as possible with the amount that I withdrew and will start to play again. I really needed this money with all my situation and I really apologize for that.

Still not received anything back.

TwoplusTwo (and other forums) username: jsmejia21
Pokerstars Screenname: jsmejia21
Real name: Juan Sebastian Gomez Mejia
Email: jsmejia21@gmail.com
Skype: juanse8922
Country: Colombia
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/juan.s.mejia
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jsmejia21
Photo ID: http://screencast.com/t/Ww6UcjPl0r
Photo of holding ID: http://screencast.com/t/XNvjUAhqF
Pokerstars Cashier: http://screencast.com/t/vZFUkibq2
Known Address: Street 23 #86-39 Int 102 Bogota-Colombia
Cell Phone Number: +57 3195955204
Home Phone Number: +57 8128534


We backed jsmejia21 / Juan Sebastian Gomez Mejia since May 2016.

Juan Sebastian Gomez Mejia asked us for a loan in August, which we granted, to cover expenses until jsmejia21 received payment for work unrelated to what he did. He has not repaid this loan.

Then Juan Mejia started withdrawing (stealing) funds without permission in September, he withdrew a total of $164.58 in 4 separate transactions. From September onward Juan Gomez was inputting fake account balances, to cover up his theft.

When we asked Juan Sebastian Gomez Mejia for audits he ignored the emails, and then claimed that he was travelling and didn't have access to his computer. Jsmejia21 finally sent audits and prior to sending them in deposited $149.84 hoping we wouldn't notice the withdrawals. We asked Jsmejia21 to send the $149.84 that he had deposited, and he refused.

When asked about the withdrawals Juan Sebastian Gomez Mejia's response was:

Juan Sebastian Gomez Mejia owes us a total of $1,742.65.

If you need any additional information please PM us.

Is there a place on 2+2 to name a poker player who scammed on another forum? He's at least somewhat active playing live tournaments, I know.

This place seems fine (do you know if he has a 2+2 account)?

Stars name: liga_br
Real name: janis nikolovskis
Country: Lativa/ living in the UK.
skype: jay-low35

Was backing him for 2-3 months without any problems. Started complaining about a standard swing which some times can be a red flag which for some reason worried us. a couple of weeks later we recieved a message from claiming that his friend had been on the account without his permission and lost all the money outside of the deal. obviously we have no proof to back this up or to say it was some other reason but he is responsible for the money in the account while staked. His mu was $7.7k and we believe there was around $600 in the account at the time. We have said he pay back in whenever he can. We will update this thread if we get anymore information from him

PokerStars: CarzR7
2+2: CarzR
Real Name: Charlie Rimmer
Country: England

Signed Charlie in January to play micro/low MTTs and he struggled a bit with the variance of the game. Didn't meet volume goals, needed a month off due to some non poker concerns, and I allowed it. He returned in September to get back on the grind, but after putting in a handful of games he's disappeared. Haven't heard from him since late September and at this point, I have to consider this a 'roll.'

He owes $1700

Name: George Alexander Alvarado Quintero
Pokerstars: cofla924
888: cofla0924
Party: cofla924

Did not hit our minimum games per month multiple months in a row. We gave a final chance, did well, then the very next month played 50 games. We asked him to send us the Pocarr cash he holds and he cashed it out for himself "because of an emergency".