More emails:

At least you've moved up from bullying RJ to trying with Bobo. Let us know how that works out for you.

On this page we have: Lawsuit threat. Zero evidence. Gorilla math that you owe zero. And a request for a ruling.

OK, speaking for basically everyone who read all your posts, here it is the answer you asked for. You owe the entire stake you admitted you stole. She seems to be willing to take 900. Given nothing other than a claim of adding it up somehow, how could we conclude anything other than what you admitted in your own email? Get a payment plan and pay her back. Then we won't think you a thief or scammer. We'll think you're a guy who made a mistake and is trying to make good.

yeah I'm not paying you a dime and if you don't like it, sue me. and if 2p2 ever publishes a reference to me that slanderous I'll see you in court

I've saved a screenshot of the first time.

And I want my SN back. Cborders needs to unban me.

Well, regardless of what JB has been posting, I still plan to get into this a bit further when I get back later tonight and post my thoughts so far. I think we could get this simplified down to one or two main points that JB and RJ are disagreeing on, and go from there. Sounds like I'm wasting my time now, but I'll probably still do it anyway as I've given it some thought and done a little bit of research.

I'm not sure she wants to sue you, idk.

What is clear is that less than $1000 is more than your reputation is worth, as far as you are concerned.

Poor Justin.

I already know what we disagree on. It's the chop amount. She changed that many times until now it's disappeared. I don't care what she says, she has no chance of proving I owe her anything, and the onus is on her to prove it. I offered an amicable settlement but I'm not paying now because I'm going to insist she stick to the original deal.

If you don't believe me, let her state the dates I was staked for. All she has as evidence is an email where I said, I think I owed her some amount when that was wrong. Otherwise the onus is on her to prove I owe her anything, and I've given up and will pay her zero. It's all makeup she's trying to free roll me for post BF

oh and tell cborders to give me back my sn

Per the funds transfers on PS, the stake started on 12/4/10 and ended on 4/15/11 (Black Friday).

So, I'll admit to not having any personal experience with staking deals, but I'm going to try again with how I understand they usually work. I welcome anyone to make corrections and/or clarifications.

Stake is given with specific conditions on what can be played, limits, profit share, etc.

Player plays with staked money, and from time to time the player and staker will split profits if there are any - this doesn't affect the original stake that is still the staker's money.

If a horse goes on to lose money, that would then become part of makeup, I believe. No profits would be split until the player is out of makeup, and I would expect that if the bankroll is topped up by $x by the staker, the first $x after the original bankroll was reached would go to the staker, and then profit sharing could begin again. I'm sure this is going to vary a bit depending on the arrangement.

If the stake is ended, there might be different arrangements for how any outstanding makeup is dealt with, depending on the staking agreement.

So that's how I understand a "standard" staking agreement might work. I welcome anyone's thoughts on anything I might have wrong. More importantly, I'm hoping to get RJ's and JB's thoughts on if this is how they understood their deal, and/or how it was different.

Makeup seems to be the key to the disagreement here. Either their figures are different, or their understanding of the deal is different, or both. It would be great to find out where the disagreement is, if JB is willing to discuss this any further. If not, so be it I guess, although I'm not sure why he'd have asked for arbitration in the first place in that case.

Headed out with the family for a couple hours; hopefully I'll see more information and less lawsuit talk when I return.

My recollection of the deal was as follows:

1. It was for tournaments only, MTTs and possibly SNGs. I don't remember the exact buy-in specifications, but not all that high stake. Maybe $20 as the max buy-in? But I freely admit that's a guess on my part.

I did not have action on cash games or larger tournaments, although I ended up accepting incidents of both on the stake. IIRC, he did sell some action for bigger tourneys during the stake in the MP, and I might have taken a piece during those times.

2. It was a 50/50 profit split. If he was not in MU, we split any profit each week 50/50.

3. If he was in MU, he had to get out of it. I'm not going to lie, I really have no idea what we hashed out for that except that after we agreed on it, it was never altered past that time.

4. The original stake money was mine, and would be returned to me at the end of the stake. The original stake money was $500 originally (although the first transfer was for $400 due to PS transfer limits) and raised to $750 around mid to late March IIRC, with $200 added on to cover his "loan".

5. This was purely a poker stake. The money was for poker only (although, again, I forgave him when he admitted to cashing money out to pay rent. I wanted it back so I added it to the bankroll but did not otherwise penalize him for withdrawing stake money). There was no weekly stipend or agreement that he could use stake money for personal expenses.

To the best of my recollection, he was not in MU on BF. His own emails from that time reference his belief that he owed a small profit at that time (roughly $30, so a $15 split) which I said to forget about. I only wanted the original stake money back - the $750 + $200.

yeah and if you want to calculate it yourself, you need sharkscope and to pull all the data

my original deal with her was that I had to cash out weekly. the way the chop worked was anytime the total of the week was 100 or over we'd chop 50 and if over 200 we'd only chop 100, if it was 300 we still would chop 100

it never actually came just like that because sometimes I'd win big and need some extra but I always made it up later. so my chop idea didn't go perfectly but it did keep the MU down until I hit the DS

this way I could cash out and it wouldn't hurt but I'd accrue makeup

so to figure out what I owe or don't owe, you have to go through every MTT and STT I played for her and sort into weeks

this is why I didn't know how much I owed her because it takes awhile. You have to see what weeks are chops and which aren't.

The other part, and this is what I missed, is that she dropped me from MTTs so, the MTT part of the stake discontinues at some date. so it's not that easy to do all this, you'd need a sub to sharkscope which I don't have

but there isn't a reason not to trust me because I haven't lied or cheated anyone before, so it's my word against hers as far as the chops

if you use the 50/100 chop that started the stake I don't owe anything and I'm sure you will find the same thing if you parse the data

like I said, there isn't a reason not to just trust my word on this because I've done this before with other backers and always settled up

I even offered to carry the makeup for her but once I gave her the wrong number she wouldn't accept anything else but all of it NOW

and just to re-iterate

we both agreed to change the weekly chop %, so when I did this the first time, I had to figure out when we changed it. If we use the original chop amount, then the 235 is MU also.

Could you have some of these other backers come in here and say what a great guy you are and were never a problem?

After perusing the "Selling Shares" section it seems as if the buy-ins for the stake wasn't nearly as high as $20 for MTTs, as he sells some packages with $11s throw in with stuff like the Sunday Million.

Not going to lie, I don't remember the exact buy-ins he was allowed. I don't remember ever adjusting it as such, but it was three years ago, I'm not going to pretend it's not possible I've got some of the details wrong. Not intentionally, simply through lack of remembering at this point.

I do remember a time he "misclicked" and entered a large buy in tourney and then money bubbled while I watched. This was after I had told him to obey the hard cap for tourney buy-ins.

Ah, memories.

none of my backers seemed to like me personally but I guess not many ppl do

but I can put the names up of 3 backers who made money off me in 2p2 and all were promptly paid, though I had a slowplay problem with one of them for 221 and paid him back as soon as I could

That's really what she should do. Filing small claims complaints is cheap. You both live in MD so it'll be easy for both of you to show up and tell your stories to the judge. Sure, the thread is fun to read, but you're just wasting each other's time at this point.

that sucked hard because the min cash itself was 9x

I mean I wanted to pay her the profit and she can transfer or sell the MU if she wants. I will give her time but I'm close to landing a deal and the MU has to expire at some point. She can have the 235 imo, I want her to have it. Just having her profit in my pocket eats at me. I like my i's dotted.

OMFG I've told you a million times you can transfer the debt if you can find someone who will buy it.

And nope, the debt doesn't expire because it wasn't MU. You stole the stake money itself.

Further, you've made no attempt to stay in contact with me for almost three years. Any rational person would say that even if there was an expiration, it doesn't apply when one of the parties, particularly the person in debt, stops communication.

You returned to the site time and time again after the unrealzeal account was banned and never once made any attempt to get ahold of me. The ONLY reason you did this time is because you thought I'd be willing to lie for you in the hopes of getting my money.

More fool you.

well then you can take me to small claims court and I will deal with the forum in another manner

thanks for staking me

Now why do you think your backers or most people don't like you?

I can't imagine why.


How many people do you owe money to, right now?


And Justin, if you exist, you can't say you haven't been warned.

Degen gonna degen.

It is difficult to fathom.