CLAYTON JIANG STEALS MONEY FROM HORSE
11-30-2020
, 04:25 PM
I was introduced to Clayton Jiang last year. We agreed to go into a staking deal for a live 25-50 NL game in Boston, and his 5-10 game that he ran sometimes. I live in NJ (4-5 hours driving each way) so was only able to play a handful of times. The last trip I made there was last December. I had 0 makeup, and lost 50k and 20k in two consecutive sessions against a guy I had never seen before at the game. Clayton suspected cheating but was away and couldn't prove it.
JAN 26—Clayton texts me about a possible game. I tell him I won't be able to make it that weekend. We text again a few days later, but then Covid happens, games die, and we have no correspondence until Aug 27th, when he asks if I’m still playing and tells me he's starting a 5/10 game. He hits me up several times over the next few weeks inviting me to play in games, but I'm away and can't make it.
OCT 5th—Clayton texts me asking if I want to get trained to deal his game. I learn that dealers only keep half the tips, and that he wants to split my half 60/40 (40 towards the makeup). I tell him I don't think that's a fair offer to deal off the makeup from a 25-50 cash game, not to mention that I live 5 hours away and couldn't be there consistently.
OCT 15th—Clayton tweets and posts a 2+2 thread about the 25-50 game I was staked in being cheated, and him having proof. (His post here: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...YzsBWIBPW3EZgI
I text him when I read the story. Towards the end of the convo he tells me it's better I stay out of it, and to consider my makeup cleared. I tell him I hope he gets his money back somehow. He says "I won't, it's okay though.” So: my makeup is clear and he acknowledges the fact that he won't be getting it back and has made peace with that.
NOV 18th— Clayton texts me saying he started a 2-5 and 1-2 game on an app and asks me to bring players for rakeback. We chat a bit about RB% and I suggest he puts me in. He tells me "no pros." I tell him I would give action. He tells me "I would love to stake you" and to try and bring him some players. The next day he texts: "Wanna play tonight? I'll stake you.” It’s 1k max, he won't cap my rebuys, and says we "settle on mondays." I play and win $2900. He texts me next morning saying I'm a beast and invites me to a 10/20 game on the app that day. I win 22,200. He texts me early Saturday morning, acknowledging what a big night I had. Later at 3pm that day he texts me saying a player wants to play and if I'm free...I say no. We bs about non poker stuff and convo ends. Sun I text him twice, but he doesn’t respond.
Monday I text him again and he tells me to call him.
He starts the convo by asking me if it's fair that he is down 80k from the old 25-50 game. I say, of course not, we got cheated. He said “Exactly, WE got cheated so I don't think it's fair that I have to eat the whole loss.”
I explain to him he was the one who dropped the makeup on his own accord (and many people I spoke to agreed makeup should be dropped 100% in a proven cheated game). Regardless, I did not ask him to clear my makeup...HE CLEARED IT ON HIS OWN. He then also tries to say that the makeup was only clear if I was not involved in the cheating. Basically grasping at straws trying to make excuses as to why he is scamming me. He knows very well that I was not involved in any way and even told me how the person who discovered the cheating felt bad for me as I got it in good every time. He has ZERO proof of my involvement and is trying to think of any possible way to defend him stealing the money. He tells me he cleared the makeup out of frustration and did not think he would be staking me again.
I told him I understood his frustration, but that he did end up staking me and can't just go back and reinstate makeup with zero discussion of it after he sees that I won. He then proceeds to tell me that he "didn't think I would win that much," to which I responded "So you basically got greedy after I won a big amount and decided to just keep it?" He says “Yes, yes I did get greedy.”
He then named two respected poker players and told me he discussed the situation with them, and that one told him I owed all makeup and the other said he should discuss it with me. He kept saying "I thought you were just an affiliate and checking out the games...I told you no pros were allowed." I said "Clayton you asked me to play and clearly said you would stake me...if you think i was only "checking out the games" then you were under the impression that I was playing on my own which would mean I am supposed to get the full 25k that I won." It was very obvious he knew he was in the wrong and throwing **** reasons at me, which all contradicted each other, to explain why he wasn't paying. He basically kept gaslighting me, wouldn't allow me to respond, and then hung up on me.
After that, I texted him several times trying to reason with him and also asking him for arbitration. If he truly thinks what he did was right, he should have no issue having two outside parties make a fair decision. I also reached out to the two people he mentioned and it turns out both were given incomplete hypothetical situations without details or all of the facts.
Also worth noting...one of the friends he asked advice from sent me a screenshot of Clayton reaching out early Sat morning after my 22k win, after which Clayton texted me to tell me what a "monster night" I had...once again zero mention of any makeup. Remember, he then texted me AGAIN on that afternoon asking me to play. Knowing full well he was already going to keep the money, he essentially tried to freeroll me one last time before Monday.
Following our Monday phone convo, he ignored me for days. He finally responded, gaslighting me and refusing arbitration because "he knows he is right and doesn't have the time." I told him what he was doing was straight up theft and that he 100% knows makeup was clear when he offered to stake me. He has since completely ignored me.
I have spoken to many people about this situation who all told me what he did was completely scummy and that if he has well-respected friends in the poker world they should know, because nobody would want to do business with him knowing what kind of person he is. Since he himself just spent time outing a cheated game and exposing liars and theft, I truly believed after giving him time to collect his thoughts that he would see what he did was wrong and pay. Instead he chose to reveal his true character and steal from me because of self-admitted greed.
Arbitrating this fairly and getting paid what I'm rightfully owed is my goal. If Clayton does what is right I will update this post accordingly, but until then people should know the truth.
Below is a link to our whole conversation from the start of the new stake until he told me he is keeping the money. I know it is a lot to read but I wanted to be completely transparent and show everybody all of the facts so as to support my side of the story.
https://imgur.com/a/20BO9SM
JAN 26—Clayton texts me about a possible game. I tell him I won't be able to make it that weekend. We text again a few days later, but then Covid happens, games die, and we have no correspondence until Aug 27th, when he asks if I’m still playing and tells me he's starting a 5/10 game. He hits me up several times over the next few weeks inviting me to play in games, but I'm away and can't make it.
OCT 5th—Clayton texts me asking if I want to get trained to deal his game. I learn that dealers only keep half the tips, and that he wants to split my half 60/40 (40 towards the makeup). I tell him I don't think that's a fair offer to deal off the makeup from a 25-50 cash game, not to mention that I live 5 hours away and couldn't be there consistently.
OCT 15th—Clayton tweets and posts a 2+2 thread about the 25-50 game I was staked in being cheated, and him having proof. (His post here: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...YzsBWIBPW3EZgI
I text him when I read the story. Towards the end of the convo he tells me it's better I stay out of it, and to consider my makeup cleared. I tell him I hope he gets his money back somehow. He says "I won't, it's okay though.” So: my makeup is clear and he acknowledges the fact that he won't be getting it back and has made peace with that.
NOV 18th— Clayton texts me saying he started a 2-5 and 1-2 game on an app and asks me to bring players for rakeback. We chat a bit about RB% and I suggest he puts me in. He tells me "no pros." I tell him I would give action. He tells me "I would love to stake you" and to try and bring him some players. The next day he texts: "Wanna play tonight? I'll stake you.” It’s 1k max, he won't cap my rebuys, and says we "settle on mondays." I play and win $2900. He texts me next morning saying I'm a beast and invites me to a 10/20 game on the app that day. I win 22,200. He texts me early Saturday morning, acknowledging what a big night I had. Later at 3pm that day he texts me saying a player wants to play and if I'm free...I say no. We bs about non poker stuff and convo ends. Sun I text him twice, but he doesn’t respond.
Monday I text him again and he tells me to call him.
He starts the convo by asking me if it's fair that he is down 80k from the old 25-50 game. I say, of course not, we got cheated. He said “Exactly, WE got cheated so I don't think it's fair that I have to eat the whole loss.”
I explain to him he was the one who dropped the makeup on his own accord (and many people I spoke to agreed makeup should be dropped 100% in a proven cheated game). Regardless, I did not ask him to clear my makeup...HE CLEARED IT ON HIS OWN. He then also tries to say that the makeup was only clear if I was not involved in the cheating. Basically grasping at straws trying to make excuses as to why he is scamming me. He knows very well that I was not involved in any way and even told me how the person who discovered the cheating felt bad for me as I got it in good every time. He has ZERO proof of my involvement and is trying to think of any possible way to defend him stealing the money. He tells me he cleared the makeup out of frustration and did not think he would be staking me again.
I told him I understood his frustration, but that he did end up staking me and can't just go back and reinstate makeup with zero discussion of it after he sees that I won. He then proceeds to tell me that he "didn't think I would win that much," to which I responded "So you basically got greedy after I won a big amount and decided to just keep it?" He says “Yes, yes I did get greedy.”
He then named two respected poker players and told me he discussed the situation with them, and that one told him I owed all makeup and the other said he should discuss it with me. He kept saying "I thought you were just an affiliate and checking out the games...I told you no pros were allowed." I said "Clayton you asked me to play and clearly said you would stake me...if you think i was only "checking out the games" then you were under the impression that I was playing on my own which would mean I am supposed to get the full 25k that I won." It was very obvious he knew he was in the wrong and throwing **** reasons at me, which all contradicted each other, to explain why he wasn't paying. He basically kept gaslighting me, wouldn't allow me to respond, and then hung up on me.
After that, I texted him several times trying to reason with him and also asking him for arbitration. If he truly thinks what he did was right, he should have no issue having two outside parties make a fair decision. I also reached out to the two people he mentioned and it turns out both were given incomplete hypothetical situations without details or all of the facts.
Also worth noting...one of the friends he asked advice from sent me a screenshot of Clayton reaching out early Sat morning after my 22k win, after which Clayton texted me to tell me what a "monster night" I had...once again zero mention of any makeup. Remember, he then texted me AGAIN on that afternoon asking me to play. Knowing full well he was already going to keep the money, he essentially tried to freeroll me one last time before Monday.
Following our Monday phone convo, he ignored me for days. He finally responded, gaslighting me and refusing arbitration because "he knows he is right and doesn't have the time." I told him what he was doing was straight up theft and that he 100% knows makeup was clear when he offered to stake me. He has since completely ignored me.
I have spoken to many people about this situation who all told me what he did was completely scummy and that if he has well-respected friends in the poker world they should know, because nobody would want to do business with him knowing what kind of person he is. Since he himself just spent time outing a cheated game and exposing liars and theft, I truly believed after giving him time to collect his thoughts that he would see what he did was wrong and pay. Instead he chose to reveal his true character and steal from me because of self-admitted greed.
Arbitrating this fairly and getting paid what I'm rightfully owed is my goal. If Clayton does what is right I will update this post accordingly, but until then people should know the truth.
Below is a link to our whole conversation from the start of the new stake until he told me he is keeping the money. I know it is a lot to read but I wanted to be completely transparent and show everybody all of the facts so as to support my side of the story.
https://imgur.com/a/20BO9SM
12-01-2020
, 03:06 PM
Quote:
I was introduced to Clayton Jiang last year. We agreed to go into a staking deal for a live 25-50 NL game in Boston, and his 5-10 game that he ran sometimes. I live in NJ (4-5 hours driving each way) so was only able to play a handful of times. The last trip I made there was last December. I had 0 makeup, and lost 50k and 20k in two consecutive sessions against a guy I had never seen before at the game. Clayton suspected cheating but was away and couldn't prove it.
JAN 26—Clayton texts me about a possible game. I tell him I won't be able to make it that weekend. We text again a few days later, but then Covid happens, games die, and we have no correspondence until Aug 27th, when he asks if I’m still playing and tells me he's starting a 5/10 game. He hits me up several times over the next few weeks inviting me to play in games, but I'm away and can't make it.
OCT 5th—Clayton texts me asking if I want to get trained to deal his game. I learn that dealers only keep half the tips, and that he wants to split my half 60/40 (40 towards the makeup). I tell him I don't think that's a fair offer to deal off the makeup from a 25-50 cash game, not to mention that I live 5 hours away and couldn't be there consistently.
OCT 15th—Clayton tweets and posts a 2+2 thread about the 25-50 game I was staked in being cheated, and him having proof. (His post here: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...YzsBWIBPW3EZgI
I text him when I read the story. Towards the end of the convo he tells me it's better I stay out of it, and to consider my makeup cleared. I tell him I hope he gets his money back somehow. He says "I won't, it's okay though.” So: my makeup is clear and he acknowledges the fact that he won't be getting it back and has made peace with that.
NOV 18th— Clayton texts me saying he started a 2-5 and 1-2 game on an app and asks me to bring players for rakeback. We chat a bit about RB% and I suggest he puts me in. He tells me "no pros." I tell him I would give action. He tells me "I would love to stake you" and to try and bring him some players. The next day he texts: "Wanna play tonight? I'll stake you.” It’s 1k max, he won't cap my rebuys, and says we "settle on mondays." I play and win $2900. He texts me next morning saying I'm a beast and invites me to a 10/20 game on the app that day. I win 22,200. He texts me early Saturday morning, acknowledging what a big night I had. Later at 3pm that day he texts me saying a player wants to play and if I'm free...I say no. We bs about non poker stuff and convo ends. Sun I text him twice, but he doesn’t respond.
Monday I text him again and he tells me to call him.
He starts the convo by asking me if it's fair that he is down 80k from the old 25-50 game. I say, of course not, we got cheated. He said “Exactly, WE got cheated so I don't think it's fair that I have to eat the whole loss.”
I explain to him he was the one who dropped the makeup on his own accord (and many people I spoke to agreed makeup should be dropped 100% in a proven cheated game). Regardless, I did not ask him to clear my makeup...HE CLEARED IT ON HIS OWN. He then also tries to say that the makeup was only clear if I was not involved in the cheating. Basically grasping at straws trying to make excuses as to why he is scamming me. He knows very well that I was not involved in any way and even told me how the person who discovered the cheating felt bad for me as I got it in good every time. He has ZERO proof of my involvement and is trying to think of any possible way to defend him stealing the money. He tells me he cleared the makeup out of frustration and did not think he would be staking me again.
I told him I understood his frustration, but that he did end up staking me and can't just go back and reinstate makeup with zero discussion of it after he sees that I won. He then proceeds to tell me that he "didn't think I would win that much," to which I responded "So you basically got greedy after I won a big amount and decided to just keep it?" He says “Yes, yes I did get greedy.”
He then named two respected poker players and told me he discussed the situation with them, and that one told him I owed all makeup and the other said he should discuss it with me. He kept saying "I thought you were just an affiliate and checking out the games...I told you no pros were allowed." I said "Clayton you asked me to play and clearly said you would stake me...if you think i was only "checking out the games" then you were under the impression that I was playing on my own which would mean I am supposed to get the full 25k that I won." It was very obvious he knew he was in the wrong and throwing **** reasons at me, which all contradicted each other, to explain why he wasn't paying. He basically kept gaslighting me, wouldn't allow me to respond, and then hung up on me.
After that, I texted him several times trying to reason with him and also asking him for arbitration. If he truly thinks what he did was right, he should have no issue having two outside parties make a fair decision. I also reached out to the two people he mentioned and it turns out both were given incomplete hypothetical situations without details or all of the facts.
Also worth noting...one of the friends he asked advice from sent me a screenshot of Clayton reaching out early Sat morning after my 22k win, after which Clayton texted me to tell me what a "monster night" I had...once again zero mention of any makeup. Remember, he then texted me AGAIN on that afternoon asking me to play. Knowing full well he was already going to keep the money, he essentially tried to freeroll me one last time before Monday.
Following our Monday phone convo, he ignored me for days. He finally responded, gaslighting me and refusing arbitration because "he knows he is right and doesn't have the time." I told him what he was doing was straight up theft and that he 100% knows makeup was clear when he offered to stake me. He has since completely ignored me.
I have spoken to many people about this situation who all told me what he did was completely scummy and that if he has well-respected friends in the poker world they should know, because nobody would want to do business with him knowing what kind of person he is. Since he himself just spent time outing a cheated game and exposing liars and theft, I truly believed after giving him time to collect his thoughts that he would see what he did was wrong and pay. Instead he chose to reveal his true character and steal from me because of self-admitted greed.
Arbitrating this fairly and getting paid what I'm rightfully owed is my goal. If Clayton does what is right I will update this post accordingly, but until then people should know the truth.
Below is a link to our whole conversation from the start of the new stake until he told me he is keeping the money. I know it is a lot to read but I wanted to be completely transparent and show everybody all of the facts so as to support my side of the story.
https://imgur.com/a/20BO9SM
JAN 26—Clayton texts me about a possible game. I tell him I won't be able to make it that weekend. We text again a few days later, but then Covid happens, games die, and we have no correspondence until Aug 27th, when he asks if I’m still playing and tells me he's starting a 5/10 game. He hits me up several times over the next few weeks inviting me to play in games, but I'm away and can't make it.
OCT 5th—Clayton texts me asking if I want to get trained to deal his game. I learn that dealers only keep half the tips, and that he wants to split my half 60/40 (40 towards the makeup). I tell him I don't think that's a fair offer to deal off the makeup from a 25-50 cash game, not to mention that I live 5 hours away and couldn't be there consistently.
OCT 15th—Clayton tweets and posts a 2+2 thread about the 25-50 game I was staked in being cheated, and him having proof. (His post here: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...YzsBWIBPW3EZgI
I text him when I read the story. Towards the end of the convo he tells me it's better I stay out of it, and to consider my makeup cleared. I tell him I hope he gets his money back somehow. He says "I won't, it's okay though.” So: my makeup is clear and he acknowledges the fact that he won't be getting it back and has made peace with that.
NOV 18th— Clayton texts me saying he started a 2-5 and 1-2 game on an app and asks me to bring players for rakeback. We chat a bit about RB% and I suggest he puts me in. He tells me "no pros." I tell him I would give action. He tells me "I would love to stake you" and to try and bring him some players. The next day he texts: "Wanna play tonight? I'll stake you.” It’s 1k max, he won't cap my rebuys, and says we "settle on mondays." I play and win $2900. He texts me next morning saying I'm a beast and invites me to a 10/20 game on the app that day. I win 22,200. He texts me early Saturday morning, acknowledging what a big night I had. Later at 3pm that day he texts me saying a player wants to play and if I'm free...I say no. We bs about non poker stuff and convo ends. Sun I text him twice, but he doesn’t respond.
Monday I text him again and he tells me to call him.
He starts the convo by asking me if it's fair that he is down 80k from the old 25-50 game. I say, of course not, we got cheated. He said “Exactly, WE got cheated so I don't think it's fair that I have to eat the whole loss.”
I explain to him he was the one who dropped the makeup on his own accord (and many people I spoke to agreed makeup should be dropped 100% in a proven cheated game). Regardless, I did not ask him to clear my makeup...HE CLEARED IT ON HIS OWN. He then also tries to say that the makeup was only clear if I was not involved in the cheating. Basically grasping at straws trying to make excuses as to why he is scamming me. He knows very well that I was not involved in any way and even told me how the person who discovered the cheating felt bad for me as I got it in good every time. He has ZERO proof of my involvement and is trying to think of any possible way to defend him stealing the money. He tells me he cleared the makeup out of frustration and did not think he would be staking me again.
I told him I understood his frustration, but that he did end up staking me and can't just go back and reinstate makeup with zero discussion of it after he sees that I won. He then proceeds to tell me that he "didn't think I would win that much," to which I responded "So you basically got greedy after I won a big amount and decided to just keep it?" He says “Yes, yes I did get greedy.”
He then named two respected poker players and told me he discussed the situation with them, and that one told him I owed all makeup and the other said he should discuss it with me. He kept saying "I thought you were just an affiliate and checking out the games...I told you no pros were allowed." I said "Clayton you asked me to play and clearly said you would stake me...if you think i was only "checking out the games" then you were under the impression that I was playing on my own which would mean I am supposed to get the full 25k that I won." It was very obvious he knew he was in the wrong and throwing **** reasons at me, which all contradicted each other, to explain why he wasn't paying. He basically kept gaslighting me, wouldn't allow me to respond, and then hung up on me.
After that, I texted him several times trying to reason with him and also asking him for arbitration. If he truly thinks what he did was right, he should have no issue having two outside parties make a fair decision. I also reached out to the two people he mentioned and it turns out both were given incomplete hypothetical situations without details or all of the facts.
Also worth noting...one of the friends he asked advice from sent me a screenshot of Clayton reaching out early Sat morning after my 22k win, after which Clayton texted me to tell me what a "monster night" I had...once again zero mention of any makeup. Remember, he then texted me AGAIN on that afternoon asking me to play. Knowing full well he was already going to keep the money, he essentially tried to freeroll me one last time before Monday.
Following our Monday phone convo, he ignored me for days. He finally responded, gaslighting me and refusing arbitration because "he knows he is right and doesn't have the time." I told him what he was doing was straight up theft and that he 100% knows makeup was clear when he offered to stake me. He has since completely ignored me.
I have spoken to many people about this situation who all told me what he did was completely scummy and that if he has well-respected friends in the poker world they should know, because nobody would want to do business with him knowing what kind of person he is. Since he himself just spent time outing a cheated game and exposing liars and theft, I truly believed after giving him time to collect his thoughts that he would see what he did was wrong and pay. Instead he chose to reveal his true character and steal from me because of self-admitted greed.
Arbitrating this fairly and getting paid what I'm rightfully owed is my goal. If Clayton does what is right I will update this post accordingly, but until then people should know the truth.
Below is a link to our whole conversation from the start of the new stake until he told me he is keeping the money. I know it is a lot to read but I wanted to be completely transparent and show everybody all of the facts so as to support my side of the story.
https://imgur.com/a/20BO9SM
UPDATE: Clayton has reached out and apologized and paid because and admitted to being wrong in the situation.
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