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What to do against polarised donkers What to do against polarised donkers

03-27-2021 , 09:01 PM
Recently played a HG tourney with a big stack player who was constantly donking, both multi-way and HU. Often it turned out to be air, and as a result I started raising as an exploit, to a good level of success. Then this happens

5 handed final table 3 make the money
I raise CO (40bb) deep with A6o,
SB (Donker) calls (120bb)
Bb calls (50 bb)

Flop T93r

Sb bets roughly half pot (standard sizing for him)
BB folds
I raise 3x
SB min 3 bets
I min 4 bet
Sb calls (roughly 45bb pot)

Turn 6 (rainbow board)

Sb checks,
I jam,
Sb calls with QTo
River doesn’t Improve, I bust (like a donkey)

I also rail for a little bit afterwards, and this guy is showing basically every hand, and I notice that he also donks top pair and better, but never a draw/marginal.

Obviously the play was a punt (although based on a read), however what is the strategy against a player who constantly donks with either complete air or with it? Is it raise and fold to the 3 bet or play as though he were c betting?

Apologies for the poor quality post. Thanks
What to do against polarised donkers Quote
03-27-2021 , 09:14 PM
Let go of your ego and fold the flop. You don't make money bluffing a donkey
What to do against polarised donkers Quote
03-27-2021 , 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllStreets2Rio
Let go of your ego and fold the flop. You don't make money bluffing a donkey
..... doesn’t really answer the question. You can very easily make money bluffing a donkey who consistently donks air and checks everything else.... question was what is the general strategy against a player who has either everything or nothing?
What to do against polarised donkers Quote
03-27-2021 , 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Li0nheart
..... doesn’t really answer the question. You can very easily make money bluffing a donkey who consistently donks air and checks everything else.... question was what is the general strategy against a player who has either everything or nothing?
How can you bluff someone that can either have everything or nothing? How would you ever know where he's at if he's playing any 2 cards? I don't think you can. You proved it by this hand... you played your hand like an over pair and he still called with top pair. Not to mention the ICM implications here too.

Against these players we play ABC and let them give the money to us. No fancy stuff imo
What to do against polarised donkers Quote
03-27-2021 , 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllStreets2Rio
How can you bluff someone that can either have everything or nothing? How would you ever know where he's at if he's playing any 2 cards? I don't think you can. You proved it by this hand... you played your hand like an over pair and he still called with top pair. Not to mention the ICM implications here too.

Against these players we play ABC and let them give the money to us. No fancy stuff imo
Because most of the time he’s going to miss the flop, so it’s often going to be a bluff, so raising is at least worth considering as an option. I also have a general range advantage and and uncapped range whereas he he has range disadvantage and a capped range. This hand wasn’t a proof that we should always fold junk to a donkey cos that’s just missing the point completely, as I said, at the time he only donked junk so raising everything besides marginals and premiums is an obvious play. Icm was something I didn’t consider in the moment as I said the move was a levelling war gone wrong, however saying we just play ABC against every single donker is just going to lead to us being exploitable ourselves. My question was to whether it’s worth raising every time and then folding to a 3 bet or playing as though we’ve been c bet, i.e. raise premium/draws, call marginal and fold bluffs.
What to do against polarised donkers Quote
03-27-2021 , 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Li0nheart
Because most of the time he’s going to miss the flop, so it’s often going to be a bluff, so raising is at least worth considering as an option. I also have a general range advantage and and uncapped range whereas he he has range disadvantage and a capped range. This hand wasn’t a proof that we should always fold junk to a donkey cos that’s just missing the point completely, as I said, at the time he only donked junk so raising everything besides marginals and premiums is an obvious play. Icm was something I didn’t consider in the moment as I said the move was a levelling war gone wrong, however saying we just play ABC against every single donker is just going to lead to us being exploitable ourselves. My question was to whether it’s worth raising every time and then folding to a 3 bet or playing as though we’ve been c bet, i.e. raise premium/draws, call marginal and fold bluffs.

Range advantage on T93r? How so? I think the usual ranges that play this spot actually close in equities on this board. Yes you being the preflop agg would have a slight advantage

How can his range be capped when he isn't playing a range? Yes your range has every overpair possible but villain doesn't know this, and doesn't care. He Stacks off with any T here and possibly any strong 9 here.

Why would you ever raise this flop as a bluff when the times you do have the overpair/set, he's paying you off with 2nd/3rd pair? The donkeys don't know how to exploit.

The only time I'd ever consider raising the flop here as a bluff would be with some sort of combo draw. Other than that its not worth it imo
What to do against polarised donkers Quote
03-27-2021 , 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllStreets2Rio
Range advantage on T93r? How so? I think the usual ranges that play this spot actually close in equities on this board. Yes you being the preflop agg would have a slight advantage

How can his range be capped when he isn't playing a range? Yes your range has every overpair possible but villain doesn't know this, and doesn't care. He Stacks off with any T here and possibly any strong 9 here.

Why would you ever raise this flop as a bluff when the times you do have the overpair/set, he's paying you off with 2nd/3rd pair? The donkeys don't know how to exploit.

The only time I'd ever consider raising the flop here as a bluff would be with some sort of combo draw. Other than that its not worth it imo
What stakes does “small stakes” range from? Not sure whether I’m posting this in the right place legitimately.

He does stack off with top pair most of the time, however by that logic WHATS the point in raising as you just get him off all his draws? In that case why not raise all the bluffs to either win most of the time or fold to a the 3 bet? More to the point, given that we’ll miss the flop, why would we play such a nitty strategy when we’re in a tournament, where doing so will likely result in us just fading slowly away? I think your line of thinking can easily debated, I’m looking for a solid strategy, and if I’m in the wrong forum for that then no worries but there’s no way that strategy doesn’t do much more than win you the BARE minimum in the long run
What to do against polarised donkers Quote

      
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