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Small Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of small stakes MTT strategy

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Old 07-29-2011, 08:46 AM   #151
furo
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

15% calling ranges vs EP shoves are not realistic. you get way more folds
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Old 09-17-2011, 07:10 PM   #152
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

Quote:
Originally Posted by HUHandEH View Post
I was thinking the same....how good is your vba? I thought we might be able to parse HH into this doc and have it run automatically, but one hand later, as your HH is updated from the site.
Any Plans on coding anything still ? I would be interested in helping out.
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Old 11-27-2011, 11:31 PM   #153
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

interesting program, thanks for sharing
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:54 PM   #154
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

Bump!

Awesome tool, and awesome of OP to share it with us...

Used it for 2 mos. pre BF to do very well progressing my 45 man game, but now with a new computer it seems my network administrator(rental) has banned mediashare so I cannot download the tool.

Any suggestions people//?
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:49 AM   #155
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

omg

i can't feel my face...
i can touch it...
but i can't feel it...

AWESOME TY!
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:57 AM   #156
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

Good job, really good!

This is a big step to improve my Sng hyper turbo ROI%!

Thanks
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:24 PM   #157
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

***** ainec
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:08 AM   #158
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

How does one improve using the pushbot spreadsheet? Do you go through previous hands that you played and plug in the numbers? I am wanting to know if anyone created specific exercises to help improve their game with the spreadsheet. I love it, but there is only one problem with it for me, and that is the results in the 13x13 only show as M. I'm sure I could use it to show BB, shouldn't be that difficult.

Thanks for making this
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Old 05-29-2012, 12:59 PM   #159
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

Very nice OP, ty vm.
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:10 PM   #160
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

ok im buffled:

scenario:
5bb utg,CO HERO 9bb,BTN 10bb,SB9bb,BB 14BB

sngwiz suggest push 5% (mtt payout)
ICM pushbot with 1.5 bubble factor and 3% desired roi suggests 16% push.

thats a huge difference? thoughts?
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:29 PM   #161
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowboard789 View Post
ok im buffled:

scenario:
5bb utg,CO HERO 9bb,BTN 10bb,SB9bb,BB 14BB

sngwiz suggest push 5% (mtt payout)
ICM pushbot with 1.5 bubble factor and 3% desired roi suggests 16% push.

thats a huge difference? thoughts?
Always trust SnG over the PushBot. Could be that you are way underestimating the bubble factor. The presence of the short stack will increase the bubble factor of the remaining players. Could be your assumed (Nash) calling range is higher than you are inputting. For example, with a 2.0 Bubble factor and a 20% calling range, you should push onlt 8.0%. Quite a bit closer...

Last edited by JITxpert; 07-03-2012 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:55 PM   #162
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

thanks for response but how to i estimate my bubble factor on the fly while playing? quickie way ? maybe put 2.0 as default in tricky FT situations?
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:09 PM   #163
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowboard789 View Post
thanks for response but how to i estimate my bubble factor on the fly while playing? quickie way ? maybe put 2.0 as default in tricky FT situations?
Go back through some HH of bubble spots, calc long hand, and then just get a feel (OK if I am a middle stack and there is one shorty on the bubble, my BF is around X...)
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:41 PM   #164
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

thanks for sharing!
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Old 07-08-2012, 06:30 AM   #165
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

awesome
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Old 07-09-2012, 05:01 AM   #166
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

whats the meaning of the numbers standing on the combinations of hands?

for example when you calculate a push situation.

AA has 4.5
KQo has 2.7

and K8o has 2.3 and is red.
anyone? ty
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:27 AM   #167
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

assume that its the amount u win
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:28 AM   #168
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

question:

I have T8s from sb and BB (effective) has 10BB and he is calling 36% of hands.

pushbot suggests (with 1 player left to act) that we should push 100%.

sngwiz suggests 25% (in chip EV mode)

that is a huge difference anybody has any idea why this is?

Last edited by snowboard789; 07-13-2012 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:14 AM   #169
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhisorzz1 View Post
whats the meaning of the numbers standing on the combinations of hands?

for example when you calculate a push situation.

AA has 4.5
KQo has 2.7

and K8o has 2.3 and is red.
anyone? ty
That is the cEV result (expressed as M, although now I wish I would have done it as BB). If the cEV result is < the stack you started the hand with, the cells are red.
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:21 AM   #170
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowboard789 View Post
question:

I have T8s from sb and BB (effective) has 10BB and he is calling 36% of hands.

pushbot suggests (with 1 player left to act) that we should push 100%.

sngwiz suggests 25% (in chip EV mode)

that is a huge difference anybody has any idea why this is?
question back at you... Do you have any edge in Wiz? This will reduce the amount of hands you should push, and you can get a similar result by adding a % in the ROI cells. I had a 9 handed table at blinds of 100/200/25 with hero with a 2000 chip stack, 36% call range and a 10% ROI and it suggests 36.7%.

What is Wiz suggesting the BB call with. If BB calls looser than 36%, you have to shove tighter.

And Wiz is always more accurate than PushBot... Although, shoving ATC is +cEV BvB 10BB effective period. Do the math yourself.
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Old 07-14-2012, 05:31 PM   #171
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

yes maybe the edge is the difference. i basically love your tool and im trying to find out its limiations
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:57 AM   #172
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

ok continuing to bust some ballz i want to ask about the long term roi red box.

what would u put if u were a winning player with a good roi there? i mean putting >2% roi just barely overcomes chip ev. on the other hand the edge of a player comes not from when he is pushbotting with a short stack so maybe 3% is ok? what do U put there?
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:30 AM   #173
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

Thanks for share
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:16 AM   #174
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

Hello JIT,
Thanks for the software first of all.
I did notice something that might be off if you are looking to push from the SB (ICM excluded), and wanted to ask about it:

It seems that the calculation always takes into account that we are not from the blinds. by doing that it bloats the pot more than it really is.
For example, let's say if we have 400 effective stacks from the sb, and blinds are 10-20 with no ante.
Your calculation takes into account that if we shove and win the pot we will have 830 in our stack. when actually we will have 800.

I'll give a more specific example:

Let's say we have 400 on the SB when blinds are 10/20.
We have Pocket 4's and villain has the 20% calling range that you defined. Pushbot Rev 4.2 will give us an M of 14.0 (we started with 13.3):

[IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

An M of 14.0 means a stack of 420 in this case.
But when I did the simple EV calculation it did not fit:
44 stands on 46.035% vs Villain's calling range:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 46.035% 45.42% 00.61% 1189969368 16078350.00 { 44 }
Hand 1: 53.965% 53.35% 00.61% 1397699052 16078350.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A8o+, KJo+ }

So 20% of the time we will get called-> EV is 0.2*0.46035*800=73.656
80% of the time we take the blinds (the big blind basically), hence our stack will be 420. so-> 0.8*420=336.
EV= 73.656+336=409.656

a stack of 409.656 has an M of 13.7, not 14.0 like the Pushbot Rev 4.2 indicates.

In fact, if I make the calculation assuming that I'm not in the blinds (meaning, that if we shove and win- our final stack will be 830=400*2+10+20) I will get the result shown on the Pushbot:
20% of the time we will get called-> EV is 0.2*0.46035*830=76.4181
80% of the time we take both of the blinds, hence our stack will be 430. so-> 0.8*430=344.
EV= 76.4181+344=420.151. that is an M of 14.0.

So the Pushbot is always assuming we have dead blinds when we shove.

I play HU hyper-turbo SNG, and this means I'm always pushing from the blinds. so I find this problematic for me :-)
But I assume other people might be using it for the same purposes

Is my calculation wrong? Do you have a solution to this in the excel sheet?
If not, does anyone have a spreadsheet that deals with this?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:22 AM   #175
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Re: Updated PushBot Spreadsheet, 1000 Post Thank You

Quote:
Originally Posted by rozyboy View Post
So the Pushbot is always assuming we have dead blinds when we shove.
Pushbot has a minor calculation flaw in BvB instances, but not in the way you stated. There is an error, but it is biased toward folding too much, not shoving too much.

When you are not in the blinds and you push, you are pushing for your effective stack. In a BvB situation, you are playing for your effective stack BEFORE POSTING!!!

Let's say you are in the SB with a stack of 420, post 10 and the BB posts 20 and has you covered.

If you shove and win, you have 420*2 = 840 (not 410*2 + blinds). Ignore the blinds in this case, you wagered your stack and doubled up.

If villain folds you have 440 (Your starting stack + villain's BB)

If you lose you have 0 (that's the easy part)

So your EV Calc for the 44 example is 0.2*0.46035*840 + 0.8*440 = 77.3388 + 352 = 429.3388

That is an M of 14.3.

Great catch! I did use the same formula regardless of push position. Perhaps in a later version, I can have some logic that when players left to act = 1, it uses a more accurate formula.
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