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Ugly board for AA Ugly board for AA

09-22-2018 , 09:26 AM
From the Hot 4.40 on Stars.

PokerStars - 100/200 Ante 25 NL FAST - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 112.2 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
SB: 80.43 BB
BB: 119.78 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
UTG: 227.04 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
UTG+1: 115.6 BB
MP: 37.17 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
Hero (MP+1): 33.27 BB
MP+2: 230.28 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
CO: 173.1 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

9 players post ante of 0 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.62 BB) Hero has A A

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 2.5 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (7.62 BB, 2 players) J 9 8
Hero bets 3.27 BB, BTN calls 3.27 BB

Turn: (14.17 BB, 2 players) J
Hero checks, BTN bets 7.09 BB, Hero calls 7.09 BB

River: (28.35 BB, 2 players) Q
Hero checks, BTN bets 23 BB, fold

BTN wins 28.35 BB
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-22-2018 , 12:56 PM
Doesn't really look like a flop your range wants to bet much against a button flat.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-22-2018 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corpsey
Doesn't really look like a flop your range wants to bet much against a button flat.
Yeah I guess the problem is if I check that flop I basically wave the white flag - it almost guarantees I'm going to end up x/folding turn or river.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-22-2018 , 02:04 PM
Um yeah I don't really see another way you could have played this hand, have to at least call the turn check shoving in that spot will probably only get called by a hand that beats you. River fold he could have a busted FD but he probably doesn't lead the turn with that, youd essentially be bluff catching and I just don't see enough bluffs in his range to make calling right.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-22-2018 , 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UntimelyBluff
Um yeah I don't really see another way you could have played this hand, have to at least call the turn check shoving in that spot will probably only get called by a hand that beats you. River fold he could have a busted FD but he probably doesn't lead the turn with that, youd essentially be bluff catching and I just don't see enough bluffs in his range to make calling right.
I also block the nut diamond draw. The river is an easy fold, now I lose to 99/88/Jx/Tx, which is a pretty decent lot of hands. Flop and turn I think are the more challenging spots.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-22-2018 , 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corpsey
Doesn't really look like a flop your range wants to bet much against a button flat.

I actually agree with this.

I would probably check call flop, check fold turn.

With these types of boards I tend to play much more cautiously and passive, not investing more than one street of betting/calling. It's too much of a guessing game whether your opponent has it or not, and it's very likely they do since there is many different hands that have you beat.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-22-2018 , 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WHO_RUNIT
I actually agree with this.

I would probably check call flop, check fold turn.

With these types of boards I tend to play much more cautiously and passive, not investing more than one street of betting/calling. It's too much of a guessing game whether your opponent has it or not, and it's very likely they do since there is many different hands that have you beat.
So you would basically put him on a Jack or a very unlikely set and fold. His range is way more weighted to flush draws, pairs and straight draws with a ten imo which you are still ahead of. I think betting or checking flop is fine, calling turn is fine, easy fold on the river.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-22-2018 , 09:04 PM
I think if we are betting this, then we should be sizing up and shoving some favourable turns.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-22-2018 , 10:14 PM
This board is very likely to have hit the button.
Why not x/r on the flop?
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-22-2018 , 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltencity
This board is very likely to have hit the button.
Why not x/r on the flop?
You answered your own question. Why would you x/r a flop that is good for your opponent's range?
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-22-2018 , 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
You answered your own question. Why would you x/r a flop that is good for your opponent's range?
Because there are a lot of draws he can have and you want to protect your hand?
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-23-2018 , 04:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
You answered your own question. Why would you x/r a flop that is good for your opponent's range?
To give vill incentive to not recklessly stab flop. You previously said when you check you wave the white flag.

But I don't think AA is quite right for the task but its defensible at this stack depth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corpsey
I think if we are betting this, then we should be sizing up and shoving some favourable turns.
^ Everything this guy said.

Either check range or size up with a hand like AA and get it in quickly. Again, only defensible due to the depth. If you were deep you'd do well not to bloat the pot with this hand against a competent opponent.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-23-2018 , 06:14 AM
I don't think betting flop is bad, although it hits villain's range a lot. We can also have a lot of hands like suited broadways, overpairs, all the sets etc. I would say we are definitely ahead of villain's range OTF.

With something that's towards the top of our range like AA, we should definitely bet for value and to protect our hand a little bit. Villain will have lots of draws here like KJs, QJs, T9s and we have to charge them. Also not a lot of hands beat us, JJ would've probably 3bet pre, so just 88 and 99 and those might 3bet pre sometimes as well. Of course it's a very good board for villain to put pressure on us and raise flop or turn, but I still think check calling all the way or check-calling flop and x/f turn is worse than betting.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-23-2018 , 06:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adriang
With something that's towards the top of our range like AA, we should definitely bet for value and to protect our hand a little bit. Villain will have lots of draws here like KJs, QJs, T9s and we have to charge them.
T9s had 49% equity against hero's hand.

You're not making money betting in to this hand and thats one of the hands you hope he has after continuing.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-23-2018 , 12:06 PM
As a default I'm just check calling flop here esp with the Ace of diamonds. As played I'm check calling the turn and then check folding the river.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-23-2018 , 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin_Piddle
So you would basically put him on a Jack or a very unlikely set and fold. His range is way more weighted to flush draws, pairs and straight draws with a ten imo which you are still ahead of. I think betting or checking flop is fine, calling turn is fine, easy fold on the river.

I'm just saying I wouldn't put much money into the pot postflop. I'd call a street, maybe two (depending on bet size) but not investing much.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-23-2018 , 01:17 PM
What kind of range do we assign an unknown small stakes villain calling on the BTN here? How does this look:

22-TT
A2s-AJs
KTs-KQs
JTo-KQo
QTs-QJs
65s-JTs
86s-J9s

I ran it through Flopzilla and even though the flop is good for his range, the above range only has 30% equity against my hand. Two-thirds of the time he flops either a weak pair or gutter.

Let's assume he folds 22-66 and A2s-A7s to my bet on the flop. His continuing range now has 42% equity. As we all expect, the Qh is a terrible card on the river giving his range 57% over my hand.

Does this change how anyone thinks we should play the hand?
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-23-2018 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
What kind of range do we assign an unknown small stakes villain calling on the BTN here? How does this look:

22-TT
A2s-AJs
KTs-KQs
JTo-KQo
QTs-QJs
65s-JTs
86s-J9s

I ran it through Flopzilla and even though the flop is good for his range, the above range only has 30% equity against my hand. Two-thirds of the time he flops either a weak pair or gutter.

Let's assume he folds 22-66 and A2s-A7s to my bet on the flop. His continuing range now has 42% equity. As we all expect, the Qh is a terrible card on the river giving his range 57% over my hand.

Does this change how anyone thinks we should play the hand?
I think it's an okayish range to assign him but I'd expect this range to vary a lot.

I think with these stack depths as others have talked about we should bet big on the flop and look to shove favorable turns. We will deny a lot of his equity and he's probably more likely to make calling mistakes this way.

I'm not fond of the checking line as some others have suggested. I think checking has much more merit if we're deeper or don't hold the Ad in our hand. Also, if we always check all our overpairs I feel like we are left with too many bluff catchers. I'm sure you could make an argument for checking all you're hand on this board but I think it's a bit too fancy and we should just make it simple and bet for value as there are plenty of weaker hands that can call.

As played we kind of have to check call turn as he will give up some of the time and might even choose to bet some 9x. The river is a pretty easy fold as villain now has to get quite creative for us to be beating enough hands.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-24-2018 , 06:25 AM
cbetting 65-70% and continuing to bet most of the time on any non diamond or J turn.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-24-2018 , 09:16 AM
Upon reflection it seems like sizing up on the flop with the plan to overshove the turn looks like the best play here. But deeper stacked my line is likely best.

Curious as to how many of you advocating this line would still shove this turn given the Jx in villain's range.
Ugly board for AA Quote
09-25-2018 , 07:11 AM
why check call turn? either bet 7bb turn and fold to raise. or check fold turn.
if he calls turn your check folding river.

flop bet is ok.
preflop is ok.
Ugly board for AA Quote

      
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