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Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep

01-16-2019 , 11:14 AM
Just wondering how this should be played. The only nut hands Villain can have are 77, A7s and then some low flush draws/backdoor draws as semi-bluffs. Villain was as a decent reg.

Given that range, presume it was best to just call here, but what is the plan? Call most turns and fold if we don't improve on the river?

PokerStars Hot $11 - 30/60 Ante 8 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 5,364
Hero (MP+1): 4,985
MP+2: 7,276
CO: 5,582
BTN: 4,520
SB: 4,534
BB: 4,601 (VPIP: 14.63, PFR: 14.63, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 41)
UTG: 4,988
UTG+1: 4,982

9 players post ante of 8, SB posts SB 30, BB posts BB 60

Pre Flop: (pot: 162) Hero has A T

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 150, fold, CO calls 150, fold, fold, BB calls 90

Flop: (552, 3 players) 7 A K
BB checks, Hero bets 276, fold, BB raises to 861, Hero raises to 4,827 and is all-in, BB calls 3,582 and is all-in

Turn: (9,438, 2 players) 2

River: (9,438, 2 players) 3

Spoiler:
BB shows A 7 (Two Pair, Aces and Sevens)
(Pre 27%, Flop 48%, Turn 66%)
Hero shows A T (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 73%, Flop 52%, Turn 34%)
BB wins 9,438
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-16-2019 , 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dales99
Just wondering how this should be played. The only nut hands Villain can have are 77, A7s and then some low flush draws/backdoor draws as semi-bluffs. Villain was as a decent reg.
first of all, he also has K7s and possibly K7o
secondly, on this board you have range advantage and he does not, so x/r from BB for bluff does not really work. If V is decent reg, then he should understand that.
So, it seems to be an easy call on the flop and re-evaluate river.
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-16-2019 , 04:56 PM
I'm fine getting it in there. You're basically flipping against A7/77/K7 and since you have AA/KK/AK in your range and he doesn't, you actually have a bit of fold equity when you shove. Even a small amount of FE makes the shove +ev.
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-16-2019 , 05:51 PM
I much prefer a call on the flop.

We should be able to make much more than a 2% equity edge by keeping him wider and playing the hand out in position.
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-17-2019 , 03:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
I'm fine getting it in there. You're basically flipping against A7/77/K7 and since you have AA/KK/AK in your range and he doesn't, you actually have a bit of fold equity when you shove. Even a small amount of FE makes the shove +ev.

The truth is there no any amount of FE because V never bluffs here so he never folds. Versus A7, K7, 77 hero's hand is slightly behind. So, this is very marginal shove. I would prefer to use my 80BB more effectively and not spewing it right away.
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-17-2019 , 08:00 AM
Flat call flop and play poker. Why are you afraid of play deep stack poker?
You get checkraise on a board where you have range and nut advantage. This is never a bluff...

Spew!
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-17-2019 , 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pouled
Flat call flop and play poker. Why are you afraid of play deep stack poker?
You get checkraise on a board where you have range and nut advantage. This is never a bluff...

Spew!
I agree with this. It doens't make any sense to shove flop here. The only option is to call, any other line is spewy.
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-17-2019 , 02:09 PM
If villain is a good reg he can be x/r here with more than just nut hands. Put a few small flush draws in his range and hero becomes a 55% fav.

Getting your chips in as a 48% underdog against villain's strongest hands is hardly a spew.
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-17-2019 , 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
If villain is a good reg he can be x/r here with more than just nut hands. Put a few small flush draws in his range and hero becomes a 55% fav.

Getting your chips in as a 48% underdog against villain's strongest hands is hardly a spew.
okay, maybe it's not a spew, but in general in tournaments we want to win all-in spots more than 50% of the time and not less of that.
As for x/r, if you refer to GTO frequences, maybe it could suggest to x/r with small fd some amount of time, but it's really doubtful that people in $11 BI would keep that in mind, implement the excellent frequencies and deny x/r 101 that actually works pretty well in these tournaments.
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-17-2019 , 08:15 PM
At first while reading this hand I was on the side for the all in on the flop, but after thinking for a sec I was thinking what V could have. I mean we can pretty much take out QQ+ and AK from his range, I feel he'd have definitely 3 Bet w/ those. So whats his range here, I highly doubt he has any smaller suited connectors and is making this play. So his range is going to be AJ, AQ, A7, 77, K7s possibly as well Js9s and Qs9s... I believe, they are the only hands that make sense, even with a small 41 hand sample size. So you're definitely drawing here, more often then not imo, to a 10 or spade. So you're looking at maybe 48% if not less. Crap spot, but after tanking for a bit I would lean more towards a fold here.
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-17-2019 , 09:31 PM
The key is not to panic, let a card roll off and see.

It's fine, we can call most turns.

If we don't improve on the river and he jams we probably fold. No biggie.

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Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-18-2019 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czech Rays
The key is not to panic, let a card roll off and see.

It's fine, we can call most turns.

If we don't improve on the river and he jams we probably fold. No biggie.

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yes - this is the line
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-19-2019 , 06:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
I'm fine getting it in there. You're basically flipping against A7/77/K7 and since you have AA/KK/AK in your range and he doesn't, you actually have a bit of fold equity when you shove. Even a small amount of FE makes the shove +ev.
You have fold equity against the hands which are drawing damn near dead against you. If he folds a flush draw you have thrown actual money away.

You have the best bluffcatcher in the world so bluffcatch, and if he's never bluffing you have to ask yourself why you're so keen to give him your stack.
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-20-2019 , 06:32 AM
^^ best answer ever
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-20-2019 , 10:28 AM
Fine, I'm convinced
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-20-2019 , 10:32 AM
Far too grown up for an internet forum

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Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-20-2019 , 01:34 PM
I think the best argument against is that on brick rivers, you suddenly don't have the best bluffcatcher in the world so you may be forced to fold the best hand if he barrels with a busted flushes but the beautiful thing is, due to this cult-like GTO world, players are being taught to give up rivers with bricked flush draws because they block folding combos so happy days.
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-20-2019 , 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czech Rays
Far too grown up for an internet forum

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I'm an inspiration aren't I?
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-23-2019 , 06:43 AM
Jam/Rebuy. What is our plan on the turn when the 2c hits? Fold to jam, call 1/2 ps bet knowing we're probably behind?? In bigger buy in tournaments I probably would play this slow but in the early stages of a low buy in tourney play like a cash game and let it ride...
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-23-2019 , 06:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chazmoneypoker
Jam/Rebuy. What is our plan on the turn when the 2c hits? Fold to jam, call 1/2 ps bet knowing we're probably behind?? In bigger buy in tournaments I probably would play this slow but in the early stages of a low buy in tourney play like a cash game and let it ride...
ouch, so you are one of those guys who love variance and make up to 5 re-buys if tournament allows to do that? I just want to take a moment and say thanks for bloating the prize pool, you guys are doing really good job.
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote
01-23-2019 , 10:36 AM
Poker is not dead
Top Pair + Nut Flush Draw 80bb Deep Quote

      
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