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Top pair bad kicker meets raise Top pair bad kicker meets raise

05-12-2018 , 04:30 AM
Hi guys

Villain is unknown , sat on the table two hands ago

Aftyer review i canīt see a call here. He called in SB , board is super dry and there is still another villain on the hand...what range am i beating here?

But curious to listen to your thoughts

[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $4.50 Buy-in (3,000/6,000 blinds, 750 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37933953

BB: 385,174 (64.2 bb)
UTG: 302,505 (50.4 bb)
Hero (MP): 144,008 (24 bb)
CO: 257,879 (43 bb)
BTN: 72,804 (12.1 bb)
SB: 117,384 (19.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 4 A
UTG folds, Hero raises to 13,000, 2 folds, SB calls 10,000, BB calls 7,000

Flop: (43,500) 5 8 A (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 19,000, SB raises to 42,000 , Hero folds
Top pair bad kicker meets raise Quote
05-13-2018 , 10:50 AM
I would fold pre. A4o is strong enough to raise when you’re on the button, or maybe cutoff if you think button is playing tight.

Your stack also dictates a bit tighter play.

As played, check flop to protect your checking range. You won’t get three streets of value anyway.

As played I have no idea what to do. Just wanted to point out how to avoid such tough spots.
Top pair bad kicker meets raise Quote
05-13-2018 , 10:52 AM
Probably fold since your 4d blocks villain’s most likely bluffs, such as 64, 74 of diamonds.
Top pair bad kicker meets raise Quote
05-14-2018 , 02:54 AM
Yes, fold pre - check flop - fold now
Top pair bad kicker meets raise Quote
05-16-2018 , 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds1824
I would fold pre. A4o is strong enough to raise when you’re on the button, or maybe cutoff if you think button is playing tight.

Your stack also dictates a bit tighter play.

As played, check flop to protect your checking range. You won’t get three streets of value anyway.

As played I have no idea what to do. Just wanted to point out how to avoid such tough spots.
This is spot on.

I'm ok wth opening some suited Ace Wheel hands as well as suited Broadway's and such - but we really want to pick our battles carefully at this stage depth.

As played with our weakest aces, since we can't get 3 streets of value (and there's not much to protect from) we should look to check this flop and either call down or bet the next two streets.
Top pair bad kicker meets raise Quote
05-16-2018 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds1824

As played, check flop to protect your checking range. You won’t get three streets of value anyway.
Uuhhh i don't understand well this idea ; as other poster is pointing it out too i am missing something for sure...

So do we want to check to induce villain's bluff? To pot control? My plan was to cbet and if i am called probably check behind to pot control with my top pair bad kicker but seems i am completely wrong....but still i can't understand why ! Haha please help !
Top pair bad kicker meets raise Quote
05-17-2018 , 09:34 AM
Definite fold pre
Top pair bad kicker meets raise Quote
05-18-2018 , 04:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelin43
Uuhhh i don't understand well this idea ; as other poster is pointing it out too i am missing something for sure...

So do we want to check to induce villain's bluff? To pot control? My plan was to cbet and if i am called probably check behind to pot control with my top pair bad kicker but seems i am completely wrong....but still i can't understand why ! Haha please help !
Definitely folding this hand pre, but there's some merit to looking at the situation as these spots will often come up when we're 3bet bluffing with ace-rag. This could hypothetically happen for instance in a situation where we are button and a loose player in the CO opens.

As was pointed out before, checking back the flop protects our range. Our hand can't stand a check-raise. We don't want to play for stacks. It is also true that it might induce villain to bluff. Checking these types of hands back on the flop allows us to check back other types of holdings as well - e.g. KK,QQ, ... If we're checking back Axx flops always when we don't have an ace, this makes us incredibly easy to play against, so it makes sense to have some aces in our check-back range and these types of weak aces are the perfect candidate for that.

Hope this helps.
Top pair bad kicker meets raise Quote
05-18-2018 , 05:19 AM
If you were a bit deeper here then perhaps you raise pre to try and steal (even though that's better to do from CO/BTN as indicated before). Then you can try to c-bet the flop more as a semi-bluff then for value to try and take down the pot and you can easily fold to a c/raise. With 24 BB's your just better off folding and looking for better spots preflop.

As played you should check behind on flop and try to get to showdown as cheaply as possible.
Top pair bad kicker meets raise Quote
05-19-2018 , 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB1nk
Definitely folding this hand pre, but there's some merit to looking at the situation as these spots will often come up when we're 3bet bluffing with ace-rag. This could hypothetically happen for instance in a situation where we are button and a loose player in the CO opens.

As was pointed out before, checking back the flop protects our range. Our hand can't stand a check-raise. We don't want to play for stacks. It is also true that it might induce villain to bluff. Checking these types of hands back on the flop allows us to check back other types of holdings as well - e.g. KK,QQ, ... If we're checking back Axx flops always when we don't have an ace, this makes us incredibly easy to play against, so it makes sense to have some aces in our check-back range and these types of weak aces are the perfect candidate for that.

Hope this helps.
Just to add on this (it's solid advice fwiw), bet check bet lines are pretty much always super capped ranges (pretty much always consisting of weakish one pair hands that we can't bet all three streets with) - so solid players can start abusing us by check raising rivers super wide in that spot against our range.

In spots like this on dry boards I'm a big fan having a check bet bet range consisting of something like; Top Set, weak Top Pairs, underpairs that are probably good but not good enough to get three streets of value with - and then for the bluffs we can throw in some of our worst opens that didn't make good candidates to cbet bluff flop with.
Top pair bad kicker meets raise Quote
05-20-2018 , 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turningham
Just to add on this (it's solid advice fwiw), bet check bet lines are pretty much always super capped ranges (pretty much always consisting of weakish one pair hands that we can't bet all three streets with) - so solid players can start abusing us by check raising rivers super wide in that spot against our range.

In spots like this on dry boards I'm a big fan having a check bet bet range consisting of something like; Top Set, weak Top Pairs, underpairs that are probably good but not good enough to get three streets of value with - and then for the bluffs we can throw in some of our worst opens that didn't make good candidates to cbet bluff flop with.
This is good guys , thnx for your help
Top pair bad kicker meets raise Quote
05-24-2018 , 06:27 PM
Fold pre as played like others have said check back flop to protect our checking back range . I fold also once raised on the flop if we bet
Top pair bad kicker meets raise Quote

      
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