Hi all,

Day 1 of a live £100 tournament. Blinds are 600/1.2k. Hero is TAG and has 80k so roughly 65BB. We are 5 handed with 2 levels left before the day finishes.

UTG who is a weak senior player limps for 1.2k. I raise to 5.1k with KJcc. BTN who is the villain in this hand has 150k approx min raises to 10.2k.

Villain is a 50 year old competent player who loves a bit of speech play. He is TAG but more than capable of making moves. He has been caught trying to steal a few pots over the course of the night. He hasn't got too out of line but I think he is targeting my iso bet and wants to put me to the test.

I proceed by piling in my stack as I did not want to play OOP against him and thought there was enough weak hands in his range that would fold. Roughly 19k in the pot when I jammed pre.

Is this just far too aggressive? Should we just take the tempting price and call pre instead and fold to villains cbet more often than not?

Thanks.

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Yes, too aggressive. You 4b-shoved a 65bb stack with KJs. Let that sink in. When he min-3b and you shove that much, one of two things will happen. He will fold all his bluffs that you are beating, or he will call with hands that have you in very bad shape. Either outcome is bad for you.

In simple words
You allow him to play perfectly
You want villains make mistakes and your play here doesn't accomplish that

I don't know if I agree with that since our KJs jam is a bluff. We def can get AJs and stuff to fold sometimes.

I think I would just flat pre to the reraise. Also don't be the guy who makes it 5.derka amount instead of just 5k or 5.5k lol. That's the worst cause you waste ante chips lol.

I don't get your idea bro
So few better hands folds with this shove, its not good because his range is very narrow. And he is a 50 year TAG, I don't think that he makes this move with KQ, AJ or AT so often to justify a 4bet bluff jam for 65bb. And less in live poker.
We need more reads to make that assumption

And flatting OOP is a recipe for disaster. Please stop flatting and playing a guessing game all the way with a dominated hand.
If I was you, ill go and analyze my database and check your results flatting 3b OOP. You will see that it's really hard to make money there.

Your KJs is obviously behind his value range. But it will have some equity when called. Maybe around 28%ish against a rane of premium hands, and about 35% against a top 5% range.

So for that we need 62% fold% for a break even shove as a bluff if he calls with JJ+/AK. If we add 99+ and AQ, we need him to fold 49%.

So putting this together, shoving is about break even if he has about a 10% 3bet range.

Flat the 3-bet is the most standard thing of all time we have like 5 to 1 with suited brodways those are the odds we need to suckout when he has AA. If for some reason we want to 4-bet making it 26K and folding to a 5-bet seems better than just shoving and getting 80bbs in pre with 20% equity a little bit too often.

Also min 3-bet is usually super strong.

I'm saying that jamming makes our hand a bluff was all. If his 3b range is so narrow then we def want to call with hands that can flop well like KJs. Also I'm not saying we should jam I'm saying we should flat. Reread my post again cause it seems I must've worded poorly.

We can def flat this profitably since if we're folding KJs then what hands are we flatting vs jamming? Like yea we can flat AA and maybe KK sometimes but we mostly wanna just jam those so we need to take some of our 4.5 raise over a limp range to call, some to fold and some to jam or 4b and rarely have a 4b/fold with some stuff like A5s type hands or KQ type hands that block.

I'm aware it's hard to make money flatting 3b oop but fortunately we're playing a range not singular hands so I'm not going forward with a dominated hand always since my range will usually be a bit more balanced. We also do have a read that villain is aggro and caught stealing since OP said it as well.

Nice post thanks.

Also we have an insane price to peel a flop here with KJs as well.

Villain has to risk half his stack and only has 10% of it committed at this point.

I wouldn’t min 3bet AA or KK and give anyone good odds to realize their equity with a smaller pair or drawing hand, I would charge them a larger price and I don’t think most players would so unless you got some kind of read on this player suggesting he would I would take that out of his range. Also if he is a pretty competent player I’d assume he wouldn’t risk half his stack calling with AK.

Your bluff has to work a large percentage of the time but if you are repping AA or KK with your shove and he doesn’t have that in his min 3bet range I don’t don’t hate the shove.

Given your image assuming they think you are a TAG, what your opponent has to risk, and having a read on villains min 3bet range assuming you do, I think this is at least break even if not +EV.

IF he is capable of min 3betting AA-KK, also if you think he would risk half his stack with AK or QQ (QQ may be in min 3bet range) makes it too aggressive as well. I think the decision to shove has a lot to do with what his min 3bet range is.

Seems a reasonable spot to 4b/f some hands.
But +1 to flatting this hand

AP this is a spew, just flat and go from there

This.

end thread!

He will fold better hands as well and seems slightly unfair to dismiss that honestly but peeling the 3b is way better anyways.

You're right, he probably folds KQ and maybe AJ. But every hand he calls with has Hero way behind.

Yeah most of but he can still have TT/AQ stuff too but yeah I agree it would be clearly hoping he folds a wide enough between his raise and calling off range. I also think we need to factor in combos somewhat since we block AKs/KK/JJ which are a pretty reasonable chunk of his range.

I don’t completely hate the pile ..key part of OP is “I thought there was enough weak hands in his range” and “villain likes speech plays”

Did u get him to make a speech and try read off that?

The more weak folding hands he has the better this gets so if we thought “there was enough” this is fine

Aaaand it’s pretty sweet for your image if he folds and you show KJ, most wont understand the play at all and write u off as a madman which u can hopefully exploit later

Min 3b would be 9k.

Flatting is fine.

If you want to 4b, you don’t need to rip it.