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Small Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of small stakes MTT strategy

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Old 05-10-2021, 01:38 PM   #1
miguelin43
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Struggling in river spots

Hi guys

I specially struggle in these kind of spots: I have a medium-strong hand OTR but not sure if i can face a 3 barrel that puts my tourney life at risk

Is the mistake in this hand the turn call? I dont think so, but just asking

Whatīs our optimal play OTR? I choose a weird blocking bet OTR and actually thinking to folding to a raise and think still itīs a better solution as to face an all in 3 barrel, but i dont know whats the best answer here

Villain is our standard reg: not too aggro, no too weak, just a solid guy; his MP range was about 15%, not a nitty guy

[converted_hand][hand_history]PokerStars - 6000/12000 Ante 1500 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

MP: 433,994 (36.2 bb)
CO: 834,556 (69.5 bb)
BTN: 608,542 (50.7 bb)
Hero (SB): 476,287 (39.7 bb)
BB: 829,667 (69.1 bb)
UTG: 610,658 (50.9 bb)

6 players post ante of 1,500, Hero posts SB 6,000, BB posts 12,000

Pre Flop: (pot: 27,000) Hero has K J
UTG raises to 24,000, 3 folds, Hero calls 18,000, BB calls 12,000

Flop: (81,000, 3 players) Q 2 K
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets 44,550, Hero calls 44,550, fold

Turn: (170,100, 2 players) 7
Hero checks, UTG bets 93,555, Hero calls 93,555

River: (357,210, 2 players) 7
Hero bets 98,400,
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Old 05-11-2021, 03:28 AM   #2
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Re: Struggling in river spots

So villain is opening 15% from MP in 6max? That's pretty snug. What's the sample size?

Why not just c/c the river?
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Old 05-11-2021, 06:43 AM   #3
miguelin43
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Re: Struggling in river spots

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Originally Posted by killer_kill View Post
So villain is opening 15% from MP in 6max? That's pretty snug. What's the sample size?

Uufff i don't remember the sample size right now...I just remember that I quickly checked HM and say "yeah, 15%"

Why not just c/c the river?
Ok I think if villain shoves the river (there is a PSB left I think) his range is polarized: either he has the nuts or some busted draw or some weird stuff he doesn't want to abandon?

Thing is that if he is shoving PSB I have to fold of course my weakest part of my range range and MOST of my medium-strong range...like my DP here? So we have a very nice hand but if he shoves actually we have to fold...and perhaps we are folding a better hand !!!!!

So I thought that with a blocker bet we actually can put a better price that he is going to offer us OTR; if he has a busted draw he will fold, if he has some monster he will raise and I can fold and if he has KT, KJ we split right?
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Old 05-11-2021, 09:20 PM   #4
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Re: Struggling in river spots

I mean it's not bad to block bet prob but I'd like to protect my river check range a bit since we have a lot that has to fold and not a lot that's happy to call. Also not a huge fan of flatting the SB in general as well. I just think you're so under repped on the river when you play it like this. You don't block diamonds or AT (clubs, diamonds and maybe a frequency of the other 2 as "balance" by villain since this flop hits his range pretty well). You do block JT but only suited should be opening UTG so it's not that bad.
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Old 05-11-2021, 11:26 PM   #5
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Re: Struggling in river spots

Maybe this is to old school but I think pre is a fold or 3! Spot?
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Old 05-12-2021, 05:49 AM   #6
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Re: Struggling in river spots

Even 6 max I don’t think we can call profitably from the SB vs a decent players UTG open
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Old 05-12-2021, 11:46 AM   #7
miguelin43
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Re: Struggling in river spots

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Originally Posted by nonsimplesimon View Post
Maybe this is to old school but I think pre is a fold or 3! Spot?
I am too chicken to 3bet/fold vs MP probably doing it vs CO and BTN (this last very often)

I admit its my bottom range...
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Old 05-12-2021, 03:25 PM   #8
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Re: Struggling in river spots

I am folding pre. 15% open from the LJ is actually pretty tight. 20% is a more standard solid TAG range from that position.

I have never incorporated these small river block bets into my game. But this spot doesn't seem great given villains range on the flop and turn. Do we think villain is double barreling with a marginal sd hand that is going to c back river, like AQ or JJ? Seems like we are only asking to get raised and be put in a tougher spot than simply checking and facing a river shove.
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Old 05-12-2021, 03:26 PM   #9
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Re: Struggling in river spots

I am folding pre. 15% open from the LJ is actually pretty tight. 20% is a more standard solid TAG range from that position.

I have never incorporated these small river donk bets into my game. But this spot doesn't seem great given villains range on the flop and turn. Do we think villain is double barreling with a marginal sd hand that is going to c back river, like AQ or JJ? Seems like we are only asking to get raised and be put in a tougher spot than simply checking and facing a river shove.
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Old 05-13-2021, 05:41 PM   #10
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Re: Struggling in river spots

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledn View Post
I am folding pre. 15% open from the LJ is actually pretty tight. 20% is a more standard solid TAG range from that position.

I have never incorporated these small river donk bets into my game. But this spot doesn't seem great given villains range on the flop and turn. Do we think villain is double barreling with a marginal sd hand that is going to c back river, like AQ or JJ? Seems like we are only asking to get raised and be put in a tougher spot than simply checking and facing a river shove.
I think itīs the opposite...,blockin bet and folding is the easy decision, but facing the river shove we play the guessing game with our life in danger....

I agree flat calling is somewhat loose
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Old 05-13-2021, 10:41 PM   #11
Raistlyn M
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Re: Struggling in river spots

Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelin43 View Post
I think itīs the opposite...,blockin bet and folding is the easy decision, but facing the river shove we play the guessing game with our life in danger....

I agree flat calling is somewhat loose
I think given the thread title and river play you may want to listen to this advice:


Quote:
Originally Posted by killer_kill View Post
I mean it's not bad to block bet prob but I'd like to protect my river check range a bit since we have a lot that has to fold and not a lot that's happy to call. Also not a huge fan of flatting the SB in general as well. I just think you're so under repped on the river when you play it like this. You don't block diamonds or AT (clubs, diamonds and maybe a frequency of the other 2 as "balance" by villain since this flop hits his range pretty well). You do block JT but only suited should be opening UTG so it's not that bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledn View Post
I am folding pre. 15% open from the LJ is actually pretty tight. 20% is a more standard solid TAG range from that position.

I have never incorporated these small river block bets into my game. But this spot doesn't seem great given villains range on the flop and turn. Do we think villain is double barreling with a marginal sd hand that is going to c back river, like AQ or JJ? Seems like we are only asking to get raised and be put in a tougher spot than simply checking and facing a river shove.
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:55 AM   #12
ledn
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Re: Struggling in river spots

Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelin43 View Post
I think itīs the opposite...,blockin bet and folding is the easy decision, but facing the river shove we play the guessing game with our life in danger....

I agree flat calling is somewhat loose
Block bet/fold as a default seems like a serious leak here for reasons I mentions previously. But I guess it makes for easier decisions, you are right about that.

Mostly, I dont expect to get called with worse very often given the double barrel on that board. You are basically trying to get villain to fold his missed draws/air and not try to bluff you. Villain has a strong range advantage against you here: your strongest hand is KQ and MAYBE Ad7d and villain has a lot of KQ, AK, QQ+, Ad7d.

You should be getting raised a decent amount, including with some bluffs.

Just check and face your breakeven call/fold spot on the river with near top of your range. I am not finding a fold when all the draws miss unless I have a read that villain doesn't fire the 3rd barrel.
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