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Small Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of small stakes MTT strategy

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Old 07-12-2018, 09:36 AM   #1
Darth_Maul
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Small pair, BvB, 45bb effective

From a $1.10 turbo PKO rebuy on Stars.

PokerStars - 100/200 Ante 25 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 13.17 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
MP: 135.3 BB (VPIP: 44.44, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 13.64, Hands: 45)
CO: 11.43 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
BTN: 10.95 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
SB: 91.91 BB (VPIP: 34.09, PFR: 15.91, 3Bet Preflop: 15.79, Hands: 44)
Hero (BB): 45.51 BB
UTG: 12.58 BB (VPIP: 11.54, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)

7 players post ante of 0 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.37 BB) Hero has 5 5

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 2 BB, Hero...3b or call?
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:54 AM   #2
king15br
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Re: Small pair, BvB, 45bb effective

i will just call to hit a set because of his statistics i think he didn't fold beeing deep stack.if we hit a good hand we have chance to extract more than 20x our initial investiment and this hand will be hided.
if you miss and he bet i will fold.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:38 AM   #3
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Re: Small pair, BvB, 45bb effective

Quote:
Originally Posted by king15br View Post
if you miss and he bet i will fold.
This is precisely the problem and why I'm starting to think differently about how I play small pairs. I have roughly a 10% chance to hit a set, which means 90% of the time I'm going to miss. If villain fires a CB say 75% of the time, I'm either going to be folding a large percentage of the time or I'm going to get stuck calling with a small pair and not know where I stand.

If I put in a decent-sized 3b here, there are several benefits:
1) I could take down the pot preflop
2) I take the initiative away from him and he will likely check to me on the flop and fold a decent percentage of the time
3) I build an even bigger pot for the 10% of the time I hit my set
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:54 AM   #4
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Re: Small pair, BvB, 45bb effective

SB should be opening a ton of hands here. 3b pre sounds good. You can still attempt to pot control after the flop with position if he calls a cbet after you miss.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:18 AM   #5
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Post Re: Small pair, BvB, 45bb effective

You know the 15-1 rule for mining a set, right?
simply speaking it says that if you put 1 big blind in the pot hoping to catch a set, the remaining effective stack size should be at least 15BB. There are other factors, but this one could be deciding.
If you 3-bet in this spot, how much would you put in the pot? let's say the 3-bet size is x2.5(5BB), so you should put 4 big blinds more in the pot.
4 * 15 = 60BB, but the effective stack is not that large as you only have 40BB left in your stack after that 3-bet.
So, IMHO, flat is fine here. 3-bet hoping to have V fold is too optimimistic because he has a deep stack and seemingly loose style.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:27 AM   #6
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Re: Small pair, BvB, 45bb effective

If you 3-bet here you are not technically set-mining anymore. You are trying to take down the pot with either a 3-bet or a cb on the flop. So the 15-1 rule doesn't really apply. Against a loose opponent just calling might be better, against a tighter one who does find a fold button more often 3-betting might be more profitable.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:35 AM   #7
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Re: Small pair, BvB, 45bb effective

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Originally Posted by Chief_h View Post
If you 3-bet here you are not technically set-mining anymore. You are trying to take down the pot with either a 3-bet or a cb on the flop. So the 15-1 rule doesn't really apply. Against a loose opponent just calling might be better, against a tighter one who does find a fold button more often 3-betting might be more profitable.
so, you think that if we 3-bet here, then this is 100% semi-bluff that hopes to pick up the pot right now or with c-bet before you even saw the flop? IMHO that sounds a way optimisitic. But yeah, perhaps someone prefers this play style, I would rather rely on math like I mentioned in the previous post..
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:17 AM   #8
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Re: Small pair, BvB, 45bb effective

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Originally Posted by cizixap View Post
so, you think that if we 3-bet here, then this is 100% semi-bluff that hopes to pick up the pot right now or with c-bet before you even saw the flop? IMHO that sounds a way optimisitic. But yeah, perhaps someone prefers this play style, I would rather rely on math like I mentioned in the previous post..
Yes. His range is going to be quite wide there so I think a 3b would taken it down a decent percentage of the time. The problem with small pairs in spots like this is that they can be really hard to play postflop if you don't hit a set but you're at the stage in the tourney where you need to pick up pots.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:49 PM   #9
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Re: Small pair, BvB, 45bb effective

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Originally Posted by Darth_Maul View Post
Yes. His range is going to be quite wide there so I think a 3b would taken it down a decent percentage of the time. The problem with small pairs in spots like this is that they can be really hard to play postflop if you don't hit a set but you're at the stage in the tourney where you need to pick up pots.
Okay, that makes sense. It might be a good idea to mix 3-bets with small pairs on such spots. Will definitely try it once in a while
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:17 PM   #10
RichC.
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Re: Small pair, BvB, 45bb effective

I think the SB is trying to steal the pot pre flop here most of the time and you can get away a proper sized 3 bet. A better question to think of is what do you do if you get repopped there after your 3 bet? If SB is laggy then I wouldn't mind a 5 bet shove. I'm not saying its the best play but SB can still 4 bet with a wide range. Just something else to think of.
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Old 07-14-2018, 04:15 AM   #11
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Post Re: Small pair, BvB, 45bb effective

Also, if u 3-bet pre, then you are trying to represent a value hand in order to pick up the pot right now, right? But..ask yourself..if u actually had a value hand, let's say TT+, AJs+, AQ+, would you 3-bet? Probably not because your hand has so much equity against the V's range that you better go post-flop and realize this equity there and win the large pot rather than pick up the small pot right now. If your opponent understand that, then he gladly 4-bet and you are done. Of course you can argue for more deep thinking levels, like what if you understand that V understands that you don't have value, etc.. but hey, it's not super-high-roller tournaments, it's $1.10 PKO
SO, it seems to me that by flatting pre you represent much stronger hand than you actually have and you have proper stack size for set mining. Moreover, you are IP and if he checks behind you can check-back and catch the set on the turn. Or you can raise post-flop in response to c-bet..so much opportunities are there..
3-bet pre might kill all these opportunities...
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:46 PM   #12
king15br
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Re: Small pair, BvB, 45bb effective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul View Post
This is precisely the problem and why I'm starting to think differently about how I play small pairs. I have roughly a 10% chance to hit a set, which means 90% of the time I'm going to miss. If villain fires a CB say 75% of the time, I'm either going to be folding a large percentage of the time or I'm going to get stuck calling with a small pair and not know where I stand.

If I put in a decent-sized 3b here, there are several benefits:
1) I could take down the pot preflop
2) I take the initiative away from him and he will likely check to me on the flop and fold a decent percentage of the time
3) I build an even bigger pot for the 10% of the time I hit my set
yes,you could 3bet him to shows a strong perceived range pós-flop as well it's a micro limits,so is likely to him believe in your 3bet most of the time,even so if V are a loose agressive player maybe the call is better hear.
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:50 PM   #13
king15br
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Re: Small pair, BvB, 45bb effective

Quote:
Originally Posted by cizixap View Post
Also, if u 3-bet pre, then you are trying to represent a value hand in order to pick up the pot right now, right? But..ask yourself..if u actually had a value hand, let's say TT+, AJs+, AQ+, would you 3-bet? Probably not because your hand has so much equity against the V's range that you better go post-flop and realize this equity there and win the large pot rather than pick up the small pot right now. If your opponent understand that, then he gladly 4-bet and you are done. Of course you can argue for more deep thinking levels, like what if you understand that V understands that you don't have value, etc.. but hey, it's not super-high-roller tournaments, it's $1.10 PKO
SO, it seems to me that by flatting pre you represent much stronger hand than you actually have and you have proper stack size for set mining. Moreover, you are IP and if he checks behind you can check-back and catch the set on the turn. Or you can raise post-flop in response to c-bet..so much opportunities are there..
3-bet pre might kill all these opportunities...
it's not the contrary you wanted to say?in micros is more dificulty to vilains believe in a strong hand if you call from BB and you can show a very strong hand 3bet him as in this limits don't have soo much 3bet.
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