Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament

07-16-2018 , 11:47 AM
i choose some situations where i have a medium stack (+-20BBs) and i jams some nuted hands.in some moments i was almost in the buble with -+15 left,so i would like to know if in this limits

    Poker Stars, $0.23 Buy-in (80/160 blinds, 20 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: 4,253 (26.6 bb)
    BB: 756 (4.7 bb)
    MP1: 2,227 (13.9 bb)
    MP2: 18,101 (113.1 bb)
    MP3: 3,102 (19.4 bb)
    CO: 1,541 (9.6 bb)
    Hero (BTN): 3,393 (21.2 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with J J
    MP1 folds, MP2 raises to 320, 2 folds, Hero raises to 3,373 and is all-in, 2 folds, MP2 calls 3,053

    Flop: (7,126) 4 5 7 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    Turn: (7,126) T (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    River: (7,126) 9 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: 7,126 pot
    Final Board: 4 5 7 T 9
    MP2 showed K T and won 7,126 (3,733 net)
    Hero showed J J and lost (-3,393 net)


    his statistics are irrelevant.i shove because i now he will open a very wide range from this position with his stack and the pot was almost 20% of my stack.even in position i don't have sure if is a good ideia play against this deep stack just calling and let him put pression on my.i was in 6th left 8 to burst the buble


      Poker Stars, $0.23 Buy-in (60/120 blinds, 15 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: 2,810 (23.4 bb)
      BB: 7,519 (62.7 bb)
      UTG+2: 1,624 (13.5 bb)
      MP1: 1,237 (10.3 bb)
      MP2: 6,776 (56.5 bb)
      MP3: 4,188 (34.9 bb)
      CO: 2,397 (20 bb)
      Hero (BTN): 3,071 (25.6 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with J J
      5 folds, Hero raises to 265, SB raises to 2,795 and is all-in, BB folds, Hero calls 2,530

      Flop: (5,830) K T K (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      Turn: (5,830) Q (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: (5,830) 9 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Spoiler:
      Results: 5,830 pot
      Final Board: K T K Q 9
      SB showed 9 9 and won 5,830 (3,020 net)
      Hero showed J J and lost (-2,810 net)


      this villain was 3beting 8% (97 hands) so,for my was defintively a call.were left 9 to burst the buble.



        Poker Stars, $0.23 Buy-in (100/200 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

        Hero (SB): 3,819 (19.1 bb)
        BB: 1,496 (7.5 bb)
        UTG+2: 2,833 (14.2 bb)
        MP1: 4,690 (23.5 bb)
        MP2: 4,208 (21 bb)
        MP3: 2,917 (14.6 bb)
        CO: 3,042 (15.2 bb)
        BTN: 4,202 (21 bb)

        Preflop: Hero is SB with A K
        UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises to 400, 2 folds, CO calls 400, BTN calls 400, Hero raises to 3,794 and is all-in, BB folds, MP1 raises to 4,665 and is all-in, 2 folds

        Flop: (8,788) T 8 7 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
        Turn: (8,788) Q (2 players, 2 are all-in)
        River: (8,788) 2 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

        Spoiler:
        Results: 8,788 pot
        Final Board: T 8 7 Q 2
        Hero showed A K and lost (-3,819 net)
        MP1 showed A A and won 8,788 (4,969 net)


        villain was raising 20% of IP and i think i'm beating most of his hands.pot was almost 50% of my stack and i don't wanna 3bet this hand OOP to left 14-15BBs and miss the board.
        was 8 left to burst the buble.

        my question is: in this stakes wich the field have many recreational players worth it do this plays in this moments (midle to final lvls),and on initial lvls how i put my tournament on a variance play?
        OBS:all this hands happens at the same day.
        shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament Quote
        07-16-2018 , 12:21 PM
        You take what edges you get. The variance will be there regardless.

        All these hands have a big enough chip EV edge that you can take them even if the bubble is close. If there are big fields, you want to stall as much as possible to ensure you get to the bubble before a crucial spot when you have a small/medium stack.
        shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament Quote
        07-17-2018 , 07:21 AM
        are you asking whether you should take variance into account when shoving good hands with small/medium stack?
        shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament Quote
        07-17-2018 , 08:28 AM
        You made all the right decisions - got your money in good twice and ran into AA the other time. This is just natural variance that comes with playing tournaments, and it can happen for much longer stretches than this. It will even out eventually.
        shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament Quote
        07-17-2018 , 02:42 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by cizixap
        are you asking whether you should take variance into account when shoving good hands with small/medium stack?
        i was asking if worth it risc my tournament life on spots who i'm a good stack and good position in the buble where have very recreational players.by the way kow said the guys above looks like very good take this risk.
        shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament Quote
        07-18-2018 , 01:23 AM
        This is standard and very profitable, no other line to take.
        shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament Quote
        07-18-2018 , 03:50 AM
        I just...Your success in poker is defined by making profitable decisions, not by taking or avoiding risks..If you see +EV decision just go for it..if you lose you lose, it's poker, the risk is just part of it, you have to accept it..
        shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament Quote
        07-18-2018 , 03:54 AM
        whats the point of playing to mincash
        shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament Quote
        07-19-2018 , 02:22 PM
        There was a post on variance several years ago around 2006 or 2007 by Jurollo that was called Taming the Shrew. I can't search the archives at work but since it's not in the sticky for some reason that's probably where it's at. It's worth the read and effort to search IMO.
        shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament Quote
        07-19-2018 , 04:24 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by king15br
        i was asking if worth it risc my tournament life on spots who i'm a good stack and good position in the buble where have very recreational players.by the way kow said the guys above looks like very good take this risk.
        In my opinion "tournament life" is not a metric to use to make decisions. You either have profitable spots or unprofitable ones. That is the metric. Not whether you may bust if things go bad.

        Good spots do not happen that often. Don't pass on them.

        On another note, many players have a tendency of passing up spots to "exploit" a skill advantage later. A database study by TPE pro Matt Hunt showed that players vastly over estimated their "skill" edge.

        Think of it this way. The very best cash game players may have a win rate of 10BBs/per 100. That averages out to 0.1BB per hand. So yes, if you have a 10BBs per/100 advantage and the spot will show a profit of 0.07BBs, then yes, you can pass this one due to your skill edge. But if you are passing on a spot that is 0.5BBs, you are over estimating the value of your edge.

        With about 20BBs the data base study has shown the skill edge to be about 2.16 BBs per/100. (Since the stacks are smaller, the largest possible error a weak player can make is only the negative equity of a 20 BB decision as opposed to super deep 200 BB errors.)

        Here is a link to his article:

        https://www.tournamentpokeredge.com/...g-a-new-model/

        And his newest article in the series:

        https://www.tournamentpokeredge.com/...mid-of-profit/

        Last edited by jjpregler; 07-19-2018 at 04:30 PM.
        shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament Quote
        07-19-2018 , 11:18 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by jjpregler
        In my opinion "tournament life" is not a metric to use to make decisions. You either have profitable spots or unprofitable ones. That is the metric. Not whether you may bust if things go bad.

        Good spots do not happen that often. Don't pass on them.

        On another note, many players have a tendency of passing up spots to "exploit" a skill advantage later. A database study by TPE pro Matt Hunt showed that players vastly over estimated their "skill" edge.

        Think of it this way. The very best cash game players may have a win rate of 10BBs/per 100. That averages out to 0.1BB per hand. So yes, if you have a 10BBs per/100 advantage and the spot will show a profit of 0.07BBs, then yes, you can pass this one due to your skill edge. But if you are passing on a spot that is 0.5BBs, you are over estimating the value of your edge.

        With about 20BBs the data base study has shown the skill edge to be about 2.16 BBs per/100. (Since the stacks are smaller, the largest possible error a weak player can make is only the negative equity of a 20 BB decision as opposed to super deep 200 BB errors.)

        Here is a link to his article:

        https://www.tournamentpokeredge.com/...g-a-new-model/

        And his newest article in the series:

        https://www.tournamentpokeredge.com/...mid-of-profit/
        thanks i'll read to understand better.
        shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament Quote
        07-19-2018 , 11:23 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by RichC.
        There was a post on variance several years ago around 2006 or 2007 by Jurollo that was called Taming the Shrew. I can't search the archives at work but since it's not in the sticky for some reason that's probably where it's at. It's worth the read and effort to search IMO.
        i'm looking for but i didn't found,even so thanks for the advice.
        shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament Quote
        07-20-2018 , 09:05 AM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by king15br
        i'm looking for but i didn't found,even so thanks for the advice.
        If you can figure out how to search the archives you will probably find it.
        shove nuted hands interesting situations of tournament Quote

              
        m