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Shove or fold? Shove or fold?

09-07-2018 , 05:07 AM
$7 MTT Final Table:

PokerStars - 800/1600 Ante 150 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 11.58 BB (VPIP: 44.00, PFR: 39.53, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 50)
UTG: 8.82 BB (VPIP: 17.28, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 81)
MP: 8.67 BB (VPIP: 13.70, PFR: 14.75, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 73)
CO: 8.42 BB (VPIP: 13.73, PFR: 13.04, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 52)
Hero (BTN): 8.22 BB
SB: 27.41 BB (VPIP: 23.75, PFR: 23.61, 3Bet Preflop: 13.79, Hands: 82)

6 players post ante of 0 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.06 BB) Hero has K 7

fold, fold, fold, Hero ?

Next payout is about $27, first place is about $134
Shove or fold? Quote
09-07-2018 , 06:57 AM
I think that the worst offsuit King to shove here is KQo.
Shove or fold? Quote
09-07-2018 , 08:42 AM
Push/fold has this as a marginal shove but when you factor in final table ICM considerations it might become a fold.
Shove or fold? Quote
09-07-2018 , 09:05 AM
Why shove or fold? Call and play a flop.
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09-07-2018 , 09:42 AM
Easy shove for me.
Shove or fold? Quote
09-07-2018 , 11:30 AM
fold
Shove or fold? Quote
09-07-2018 , 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearer
Why shove or fold? Call and play a flop.
Folded to Hero with 8bb and you want him to limp?
Shove or fold? Quote
09-07-2018 , 01:19 PM
Misread, thought hero was BB facing a min raise.

But come to think of it limping shouldn't necessarily be taken off the table...
Shove or fold? Quote
09-07-2018 , 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearer
Misread, thought hero was BB facing a min raise.

But come to think of it limping shouldn't necessarily be taken off the table...
Yes it should, limping with 8bb is never a good play. But calling a minraise with 8bb when you're not the BB is even worse.
Shove or fold? Quote
09-07-2018 , 09:55 PM
Lets shove and try to get back into this tournament K7o is not that bad 6 handed and is live against a fair amount of calling hands in this spot.
Shove or fold? Quote
09-09-2018 , 07:45 AM
really don't understand how someone could shove here. just check ICM calculator at least once on your life.
Shove or fold? Quote
09-09-2018 , 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cizixap
really don't understand how someone could shove here. just check ICM calculator at least once on your life.

What’s ICM?
Shove or fold? Quote
09-10-2018 , 08:53 AM
I would fold massive icm implications with those stack sizes. Having said that I assume this is a turbo and we don't want to lose FE on shoves. our seat at table sucks as we are shoving into the big stack that can call with lower icm tax and the loosest player at the table.
thinking I would shove if suited and k9o but actually given situation im probably shoving to wide.
Shove or fold? Quote
09-10-2018 , 11:22 AM
Most important factors here IMO are

1) whether villains in the blinds understand ICM and therefore that they just have to fold so often even when they know that you are shoving pretty wide. If they don't then we really have to shove tighter and K7o is a fold

2) gameflow/ table - do the table dynamics mean we should expect to be called off lighter/ get more respect/ are better off waiting for other players to bust / at a skill disadvantage/advantage

I chucked this through an ICM calc based on some assumed payouts and it came out as a narrow shove unless we think we're getting an unusually high frequency of calls. It also said BB can profitably call anytime they have 51%+ equity here and SB can call with about 48% equity

For context, purely for cEV we can shove 42%, including K6o - and if we did this the SB gets his 48% equity about 52% of the time (SB clearly less often than this). I don't think I've ever played a villain that will call 52% of the time in this spot, I think villains are going to be overfolding by some margin. So if they are calling tighter than they should that makes a shove more favourable even with a range as wide as 42%

Overall I think I'm folding K7o unless I feel the blinds are both going to fold way too often (in which case I want to steal and increase my stack by c25%) or that I am at a significant skill disadvantage (in which case I need to gamble and take these thin +$EV spots). Otherwise I want to stick around to realise my skill edge against opponents that are likely to make mistakes in future hands
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