Yatahay Network - 2000/4000 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 21.63 BB
SB: 27.41 BB
Hero (BB): 19.6 BB
UTG: 18.35 BB
UTG+1: 22.34 BB
MP: 88.91 BB
CO: 38.58 BB

7 players post ante of 0.12 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.34 BB) Hero has K A

UTG raises to 2 BB, fold, MP raises to 6.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, [color=red][b]Hero?

Is this an easy shove against a 3bet? or should i consider that the object is to survive longer and going up against a 3 betting big stack without a pair can derail that?

I'm ok with it, honestly.

I think this is an easy shove. You may get a fold from the first guy and then if the second calls you have a lot of dead money in there.

Given the stack sizes & considering monster stack should be playing pretty aggro to put pressure on small/middle stacks this should be a shove. Our hand should be way ahead of his 3 betting range. UTG range is a bit harder to figure out, depending on table dynamic it could be pretty narrow, but even then we should be close to 50/50 vs his range.

yes easy shove - you're thinking about it wrong if you think that the object is to survive longer

How should I be thinking about it? You don’t think survival should be considered in a hand of tournament poker?


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He's right.
Many players think that "surviving" is what poker is about. That IS the wrong approach. Instead of surviving, you're trying to accumulate chips and WIN! You can't be scared to play a hand, you can't be scared to lose a hand, you can't be scared to get knocked out of a ty.

like Who Runit says you need to build a stack to make a deep run
- I read an interview once with a good tournament player where he said that he would always target the chip leader (on the grounds that he has more chips to be won) I think this is often good advice (although maybe not so much in ICM situations)

Yatahay Network - 2000/4000 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 21.63 BB
SB: 27.41 BB
Hero (BB): 19.6 BB
UTG: 18.35 BB
UTG+1: 22.34 BB
MP: 88.91 BB
CO: 38.58 BB

7 players post ante of 0.12 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.34 BB) Hero has K A

UTG raises to 2 BB, fold, MP raises to 6.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 19.48 BB and is all-in, UTG calls 16.23 BB and is all-in, MP calls 12.98 BB

Flop: (58.53 BB, 3 players) 9 K Q

Turn: (58.53 BB, 3 players) Q

River: (58.53 BB, 3 players) 4

Hero shows K A (Two Pair, Kings and Queens)

Main Pot [56.03 BB]: (Pre 36%, Flop 6%, Turn 10%)
Side Pot#1 [2.51 BB]: (Pre 44%, Flop 7%, Turn 10%)

UTG shows A T (Flush, Ace High)

Main Pot [56.03 BB]: (Pre 22%, Flop 16%, Turn 2%)

MP shows 9 9 (Full House, Nines full of Queens)

Main Pot [56.03 BB]: (Pre 42%, Flop 78%, Turn 88%)
Side Pot#1 [2.51 BB]: (Pre 56%, Flop 93%, Turn 90%)

MP wins 58.53 BB

Move up to where people don't r/c ATcc UTG for cold 4bets or just run better.

Other than some ICM situations where, as an example, maybe you have a considerably smaller stack and you're facing a substantial pay jump your goal should be to win the tournament, not to survive. With your stack it seems like a pretty clear shove to me. Maybe one or both of them will fold and you take down a nice pot. I'd be more concerned about the UTG player than the dude with the huge stack. He can't felt you but he is putting ten percent of his stack on the line from early position. He should be playing a pretty tight range. The dude with the giant stack, on the other hand, will have a lot wider range. You are facing a 3 bet for 1/3 of your stack, do you have an all-in range in this situation? If so i don't see how AKs isn't in it.

I replied before I read the other replies. You got it in good but lost. If you win that pot you are right up there with the huge stack. Even 3 way with one less A in the deck that you can hit you were only a 36-41% dog to the guy with the 99. You lost the flip.

Can’t quite understand this, we can only win the same amount as our own stack vs any stack bigger than ours. I think perhaps there were other grounds like a giant stacks tendency to play looser?

I think having a sense of “survival mode” has its place but it’s more about gritting it out for a period when the cards aren’t coming your way. I know a few decent players who tend to get frustrated and punt off 20bb stacks after losing a big pot or having a long card dead stretch. Can’t get hit in the face by the deck from the rail !

^ yeah I think it's about CL's tendency to splash about and be over-aggressive - knowing that there are lots of players who will avoid confrontations with big stacks ( I know not all CLs behave like this) - we can exploit this by being willing to take on the big stack even at the risk of losing tourney life
But we're always looking for +EV spots not for punts

I mean someone who's a good tournament player is playing against (essentially) a completely different pool of players (and potentially seeing the same people often) as well. There's prob some context not included here from the interview.

^
I can't find the actual interview but this was Nik Persaud who was a good live pro speaking about 10 years ago - when the "orthodox strategy" in tournaments was not to tangle with the chip leader - because people over-valued survival and undervalued building a stack
- I'm sure that things are different these days in higher stakes tourneys - but in micro/ low stakes online his point is still valid imo
ie - people overvalue survival so bigstacks are often playing more LAG to exploit and so can be profitable to tangle with them - esp when they are not very good