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Should we be calling this river overbet shove? Should we be calling this river overbet shove?

07-26-2021 , 09:45 PM
Villian in this hand is 69/14 over 36 hands. (Not a large sample, but it's bovada and the best I can do.) They have a 100% FCB stat (again, small sample) and have yet to donk.

Ignition - 200/400 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (MP+1): 124.13 BB
CO: 18.72 BB
BTN: 66.83 BB
SB: 44.89 BB
BB: 13.4 BB
UTG: 28.12 BB
UTG+1: 57.38 BB
MP: 25.42 BB

8 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.3 BB) Hero has A K



fold, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 3.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG+1 calls 2.5 BB

Flop: (9.3 BB, 2 players) K 8 9
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: (9.3 BB, 2 players) 4
UTG+1 bets 5 BB, Hero calls 5 BB

River: (19.3 BB, 2 players) 9
UTG+1 bets 48.78 BB and is all-in, Hero ????

Since I am lightyears ahead of their range OTF, and they have folded to every Cbet, I elected to check back the flop to give them a chance to fire the turn, which they did. I called to keep their bluffs in and give them a chance to stab again on the river.

I've seen a lot of these players in Bovada tournaments the last few days and have always had them on my left. I was finally in position against one and had worked to get into this exact situation (a strong hand, IP, with them driving the action). So I honestly didn't even notice the overbet. (rookie mistake, I know.) But I think that, in theory, this is a marginal spot. We should be defending roughly 1/3 here, we have all the sets OTF and AA that are better here. So, AK seems to be roughly in that top 1/3 range.

What are your thoughts?
Should we be calling this river overbet shove? Quote
07-26-2021 , 10:10 PM
Bigger preflop, def betting the flop vs this kind of player. They'll have plenty of 8x and 9x that has to defend to a small size.
Should we be calling this river overbet shove? Quote
07-27-2021 , 01:13 PM
bigger preflop seems to be a recurring theme. It used to be, at least in cash, that we have an opening size and tack on one BB per limper. Is that outdated? Is it just for cash? (Not arguing your point, trying to understand)

AP are we calling river?

Thanks for your answers. I appreciate them.
Should we be calling this river overbet shove? Quote
07-27-2021 , 03:57 PM
It's not outdated per se just that vs this kind of hud stats I see no reason to not go slightly bigger.

Honestly I'm not sure but it seems closer to a fold given we have the Ah but we also under rep river. I'm prob just sigh folding and making a note. People don't find enough bluffs there typically to make it worth while for us.
Should we be calling this river overbet shove? Quote
07-28-2021 , 10:56 PM
Not folding , we block K9ss and some random A9, but think most importantly our hand looks like QQ-TT here all of which we can fold on river to this size and call this unblocking any potential bluffs, AhKx is actually super nice call theorerically too as villain is meant to not bluff hearts on river here as with hearts he would block our folds,

Therefore this would be first AK we call even if we ever fold some which I don't think we do beating some dumb value bets
Should we be calling this river overbet shove? Quote
07-28-2021 , 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbalerv
Not folding , we block K9ss and some random A9, but think most importantly our hand looks like QQ-TT here all of which we can fold on river to this size and call this unblocking any potential bluffs, AhKx is actually super nice call theorerically too as villain is meant to not bluff hearts on river here as with hearts he would block our folds,

Therefore this would be first AK we call even if we ever fold some which I don't think we do beating some dumb value bets

This makes me feel a lot better. I did call. V showed up with J9o. So, I feel like my strategy/plan worked, I just got really unlucky.

Thanks for your thoughts.


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Should we be calling this river overbet shove? Quote
07-29-2021 , 03:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_lose
This makes me feel a lot better. I did call. V showed up with J9o. So, I feel like my strategy/plan worked, I just got really unlucky.

Thanks for your thoughts.
When you're facing a 2x river size you're able to call pretty tight in general and esp if you block stuff that can play this way and bluff river like AhXh. The way you get exploited by folding these spots is if they start to bluff too much. The way for them to be balanced is to find Ah bluffs on the river, but since most players aren't doing that they're going to be imbalanced in general so it's ok.
Should we be calling this river overbet shove? Quote
07-30-2021 , 11:52 AM
If a villain with those stats hasn't shown to be a spaz postflop, its a pretty ez fold with your hand. Loose passive players just almost always have it in these spots.

I assume you are going to have 9x and 44 in your flop c back range too sometimes so you arent at the top of your range. And the Ah blocks some fds that may be bluffing. A solver may say its a call, but villain is also most likely massively underbluffing here.
Should we be calling this river overbet shove? Quote
07-31-2021 , 12:16 PM
People seem to be falling in love with slowplaying 1 pair hands on the flop. I would only recommend doing that on the driest of flops. K98 gives his calling range plenty of reasons to call a flop cbet (pairs and straight draws), and means a lot of turn cards are going to make life tough. Slowplaying might be the biggest leak I see for a lot of players.
Should we be calling this river overbet shove? Quote
08-05-2021 , 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantomshark
People seem to be falling in love with slowplaying 1 pair hands on the flop…... Slowplaying might be the biggest leak I see for a lot of players.
I hear you. This is not a part of my strategy as a whole. I only did it bc of their FCB stat. But on the whole, I agree with you.


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Should we be calling this river overbet shove? Quote

      
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