I wouldn't focus too much on the leaderboard side of it as at those stake getting on the leaderboards is not a regular occurrence. If you are winning at 45 man turbos and enjoy playing them carry on doing so

It depends on how good you are. I think you can play the 1.5$ 45man or 1$ 90man. If you're new to mtt sng I'd suggest playing the 0.50$ sngs.

I don't like the 180 hypers, the blind structure is way too fast imo. But if you are going to play them you will need a much bigger roll (I think like 300-400+, not sure though).

80 buyins at 18 man turbos is ok for a decent winning player. i ran 4000 games simulation with a few 35-40 BI downswings the worst although anything is possible of course.

I looked up quite a decent amount of players who are beating 180 $3r and have made decent profits. I look at their profits for the 180 $2.50 and it seems that the some of the winners in $3r are not much of a winner in the $2.50.

Is this just possible variance, the smaller stacks or that the fact that the $3r is more like a $10 buy-in. So the overall profit per game just looks tremendously different.

Speculating, but...

The 3r's play slightly differently as they are deeper. That is one possible explanation.

Also, were the graphs much better towards the end? I suspect many people move up as quickly as their bankroll allows. So as soon as they hit some run good and start to get the results they will move on.

I think I just look at the cold numbers wrong. Lets take one of the best players in the 180s and his profit for 2854 $2.50 games is $1936. For 28,232 games for $76,803 profit, it seems that his profit in the $3.5r is massive but in reality, it depends on how much you calculate as the buy-in.

On average, I would say $10 is around the minimum average as $3.50 + $3.19(double r) + $3.19(add-on) is ~$10. I am not factoring in getting busted out early as most of the better pros don't and because I just don't know how I would hehe.

Hey!

What programs do you use to see your ROI?

Most players use holdem manager 2 or pokertracker 4. You can also see your ROI on sharkscope if you're opted in.

the $1 180s hyper's are really killers!

Hey guys, looking for study material on the 180's . I have a RIO account but couldn't find much exclusive to 180's . Thanks in advance !

This video pack on sng grinders is pretty good if you're new to the 180 man sngs.

watched a sample video then it is absolutely awful

So what do you think is the best way to learn the 180s?

Hello guys,
I am a player of 1.5's 45-man Turbo sng's with a sample 3200 games over the last 2 months app (12 at a time and 50-90 a day).
I was running pretty good in general with an AP of 0.175 per sng and a ROI of 12.6% until the time i hit 2600 sng's. From 2600 till 3200, things are going pretty bad the ROI has dropped down to 8.6% with the AP at 0.13. With a small calculation in those last 600 sng's i am not having a profit as anticipated but a loss of about 70-90 bis, altho the ITM has been decreased 0.6% at most.
The truth is that in general most of the 80-20 and 70-30 that i am in favorite i end up losing. Furthermore, what i believe is the answer to this downswing is the variance of the turbos, having to go all in with short stack when the blinds hit to 150-300, 200-400, 300-600 with an M at about 5.
What would you say about this downswing? Can a downswing last 600 sng's or even more? or is there a leak in the way of playing?
Any other suggestions?

Thanks for your time!

Hi and welcome to the forum, others can comment on sample sizes and variance better than I can, however the best way to check your play is to post hands for comment.

welcome to poker. Variance can is a pain in the ass, but you probably were happy with it when it was working in your favor

You are right, i was more than happy. But can a downswing last so long?

You can lose over the course of 3k games and still be a winning player long run. 600 games is nothing, but I'm 100% sure you still have places to improve your game and you should work on those if you want better results.

variance in 45 turbos over 600 games is close to 70 BIs so for a 12% ROI player who would expect to be 72 BIs up and is actually 70 BIs down over that period that would represent 2 standard deviations below expected - a 2% probability

how did you conclude to 2% probability for this to happen? Can you justify it further?
Do you find a 12% ROI player, a player that needs improvement (or that lacks of basic skills?) ?

the 2% is the mathematical chance of you being exactly 2 standard deviations short of your expected profit. 2.3% i think the figure is if you want to be more precise.

any player that makes a profit is good. any player can improve. i've not played too many 45 turbos but i'm sure 12% can be improved upon significantly probably mainly by improving your push/fold skills

how did you calculate this? It sounds interesting, can you explain how 2.3% comes out?

if you google standard deviation wiki has a good article including a bell curve which shows you the percentages

hello everyone, i have playing 3.5$ 45 players for a month..started with a bankroll of 100 buy-ins. i am up about 1k . i am wondering should i stake up to 7$ 45 players or keep grinding 3.5$. here is an attachment of my statistics..



any thoughts or opinions will be very much appreciated

thank you

[IMG][/IMG]