Just wondering what are generally considered to be 'softer' and return a better ROI. I personally prefer the slower nature of standard non turbo MTT's + SNG's but some of these especially the 180's can take up to 5 hours to complete. I'm not a huge fan of the short stack turbo style but would be willing to learn it if it's worth that much more long term.

tldr; Turbo or Non turbo over time has the biggest ROI%?

higher roi in nonturbos but you make less per hour compared to their turbo counterpart

What is your roll?

There are 1.50 45 mans as a buyin in between the 2 above. Tbh I wouldn't switch to cash, just get your grind on and move up the limits.

$52.

What I meant was that there are too little $0.50 90 man games running for me to grind up a bankroll and move up.

Is it correct that you should have 200 bi for sng and 400 for MTT?

What is best way to move up if you are a $2.5 180 man turbo grinder?
Should go to $4.5 after that or $3.5 rebuy? I think $4.5?

And after $4.5? It's $8 sng? And after that? etc..
And what are the differences between these stakes? I hear at $8 is where it's a lot of regs that know optimal push/fold ranges so it's a lot harder than lower stakes.

When do you recommend to start playing MTT's over SnGs when to start mixing them up?

For $8 turbo sng I would suggest 300BI would be best. Seems nowadays that 200+ BI swings are pretty standard.

For $4.50 180 I would say you would be best served to use a 200BI BR

As for MTT well it is pretty difficult to answer. If you are playing alot of smaller field MTT's then I think you can be a bit more aggressive with your BR, however, if you are focusing on bigger fields then I would think 400BI swings are pretty standard.

Is this kind of chipEV run standard in 180-man, anyone else seen their graph go like that latter part for 300k hands/6000 tournaments?

Ca. 12k SnGs this year so far (95% non-rebuy 180mans), chip run:


BB run:

Hi, I have couple questions:
Are there some std winrate for 180 mans? I mean overall ev bb/100, prob its possible to go in to details for positions?

Also can someone give me insight in to stakes - 2.5$, 3.5$ rebuy, 8$, 15$, 30$

what I want to hear is smth like this: I play hu hyper sng and for example you can teach monkey to beat up to 15$, 30$ is first level where regs are ok, but still they are weak and fish/reg ratio is good, 60$ you can be ok player, make money but fish/reg ratio becomes low, at 100s you have to be good and fish/reg ratio becomes significantly lower, 200+ basically where all reg warring starts, if you are not very good regs will eat you alive and not possible to make money

Hey guys, im making comeback and im playing $1 45s and 90s, but i noticed there are $.50c 180s going on. is theoretically possible to gain higher ROI at $.50c 180s or $1 45,90?

Thanks!

what i meant was, is it more reasonable to grind 50c 180s or $1 45/90 moneywise?

well, never played 2,5$ seriously, but from what I know they are very easy because people there are incredibly bad. 3.5$ rebuy is the softest one because there are quite a few spots where you can apply your edge deeper stacks play (if you have one) and a lot of regs lack this. I find 15$ easier than 8$. 30$ have no value I believe, not enough of them to monetize your edge, and super high variance, because more regs play it and stacks are always shallow.

A lot of regs got 10-15% roi but they play like gazillion tables, I got 31% roi, I play fewer tables and usually like 30-40 180 tournaments per session (because I switched to mtts). I guess over 25% roi is quite good, but there are guys like Marco_arruda who got absolutely beastly stats and I have no idea if he is just on the run of his life or doing something extraordinary that I don't know.

How long have the .50c 180mans been running?

looks like not that long.

i wanna see some .50c graphs. does anybody have?

i cant decide if i play them or not in my today's session.

ty Mad1Lee, pretty much what i wanted to hear

Hello, i am small stakes player from pokerstars, started to play year ago on 3,50 buyin tourneys 18 players turbo but i have serious downswing and i crushed my confidence (i lost 48 buyins in like 140 games) i think it was combination of big bad run and loose passive/tilty game ...

now i(september) redeposit, studied little more and started to play 0,50$ and 1$ 90 players turbo ... i made bankroll from 80 dollars to 450~(now) but i had to withdraw 3 times ... i was playing mostly 1,50 players 45 players and 90 players 1$ turbos and i am on 24 % roi after 950 games ... i want to ask you cardschatters if it is good roi and if i should try to move up again if i will ahve like 300+ dollars ... i was planning 3,50 45 players turbos or 2,50 180 players turbos (but those 180 players with bigger bankroll cuz of possible swings there) maybe i will also play 4.50 $ regular speed 180 players cuz i've heard that it is possible to get good roi there at those stakes... i know that they take alot of time but i am unemployed atm so i will be able to grind even 12hours daily...

i've heard somewhere that 24% roi on those turbos is good ... not sure of sample size maybe i was running good little... dunno dont have tracking program... i am playing 7 - 13 tables at once depends on what am i doing as additional thing... if i am chatting on facebook with gf or watching videos i have opened only 7 talbes if not i do open more....

Do you think i should move up ? i know 1$ turbos are pretty fishy but anyway if i will play just like 6 tables on 3,50 turbos or 4.50 reg speed i could maintain positive roi i think...

How much roi is nowdays in 2013 possible to get on 4.50 180 players reg speed? if is some grinders here or someone who knows anyone on those stakes gimme info pls, thanks

bump

24% is good.

move up

24% definitely qualifies as decent these days, but 950 games isn't a huge sample, some people play that in a week. It's not enough to say with certainty how good you actually are, it might just be a hot streak.

But if you feel confident with your game, and you are happy that your roll is big enough to cope, then you should feel free to mix in an occasional higher buyin tourney with your current grind.

The reg-speed stuff is quite different from the turbos though, and the regs you will encounter is a different group too.

As always, if you want to know what's a good ROI in a specifc game these days, check the sharkscope leaderboards.

BTW, a thread bump after two hours isn't good though, demonstrates a certain lack of patience. Also, there's already a huge thread about bankrolls and ROIs and moving, which is listed in our welcome sticky, and with which this thread is now merged.

GL!

Obviously much less swingy than the turbos, but coming off a 30 BI downswing... Is this pretty standard stuff for these games?

Recommended roll for the grind? If the above is true, then i'd need alot more than 100-150 BI's correct?

30BI is like one bad session. Your roll doesn't matter much for those unless you are dirt poor. Just keep grinding and get better and get good results and after this move up or whatever it is that you want to do.

Hi everyone, (If this is not the place for this post, please tell me)

During November I've played 2016 SNG/MTT, mostly 45 man and 180 man, the 7$/15$/3,5+r and 8$. I managed to get an ROI of 15% with some hot runs and some downswings, I would say it was a swingy month. My ABI is around 8$ and since this was the first month I grinded 180's I would like to know how big should be my bankroll for december. Thanks in advance and gl at tables

3-400x your abi ? If you have a smaller br, I would suggest mixing in the 2.5/180s to lower variance as they are super soft.

[QUOTE=Mad1Lee;40918795]well, never played 2,5$ seriously, but from what I know they are very easy because people there are incredibly bad.

i reckon you can make $1 a game in $2.50 180s. have made $1.03 a game over nearly an 8k sample this year while 20 tabling 180s, 45s, 3r and mtts so focusing solely on these and playing less tables should be able to yield a much higher roi

Marco_arruda who got absolutely beastly stats and I have no idea if he is just on the run of his life or doing something extraordinary that I don't know.

no doubt the guy is a beast with his lifetime stars but its worth remembering that sharkscopes 3r stats are skewed. even 0.5 rebuys per game above the regular rebuy/add takes $1.60 odds of your $ per game and significantly reduce your roi. would be interested to hear an average buy in for a reg in these

Hi 2+2 -ers !

Im interested in your opinions on which game a decent player should select to play. Various options are available and since i can at most play 12 tables at once ( at my current skill level ) i must choose which table i load instead of another one.

* Settings
Game type: SnG's MTT
Buy In: Max $1 ( 0,10 / 0,50 / 1,- )
Site: Pokerstars
Entrants: 90 / 180 / 360


Some stats i noticed on each of them:

Time: all take around 1:45 hr's ( each one of them ) at average
Payout:
- 90's: 13 get paid
- 180's: 27 get paid
- 360's: 36 get paid

Top 3 payout %:
- 90's: 1st 27,55% / 2nd 18,5% / 3rd 14%
- 180's: 1st 30% / 2nd 20% / 3rd 11,4%
- 360's: 1st 20,45% / 2nd 15% / 3rd 11,3%


What would be the smartest game choice for a decent player who knows his basic stuff ???? I know hourly should be the deciding factor...so when all 3 games run around the same amount of time....would than the smartest choice be the 360's ( 0,50 buy inn instead of the 180 or 90 for 0,50 buy inn ) ?? Because of more places getting paid and like that we reduce our times we dont get paid ????

I need to add something important here!
That will be the total prize pool in $.

- 90's: Buy In 0,50 than prize pool is $ 40,5
- 90's: Buy In 1,- than prize pool is $ 81,9

- 180's: Buy In 0,50 than prize pool is $ 81

- 360s: Buy In 0,10 than prize pool is $ 32
- 360's: Buy In 0,50 than prize pool is $ 162


Thanks for checking out my post !
Cheers !!!

What's your roll? I think that 2.50 180s are a nice way to build a roll. Maybe start with less tables at that buy-in and add tables as you improve.