ROI, Bankroll, Moving up, Variance and Downswings (containment thread) - Page 2 - MTT Poker Strategy

Is there any chance we can clarify pstars mostly played 180mans and other MTTSNGs, stick it all in a sticky thread in regards to the bankroll management becuase i for one have come looking for this info realising applying SNG broll of 100Bis simply is not enough here.

There is alot of confusion on this and it would really help if a great player coudl clear this up for us.

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02-19-2013 , 01:50 PM

#27

Matt Wolfe

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,248

My biggest downswing has been 1.8k in them

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02-19-2013 , 01:54 PM

#28

Sokz

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,331

Quote:

Originally Posted by markb2007

what about 4.50$ 180man norm speeds??

as mentioned in other posts im a good player, but ive busted loads of 50/100 BI rolls on these.

Not sure, never played them really but one could say one has a larger edge when deepstacked. Hence, higher ROI and less variance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiJoao

I have a question in the relation abi/tables per session in the 3rs.
Example 1:: I play one session every day, 12 tabling, making 36 sits, with the 12$ ABI.

Example 2::
I play one session every day, 6 tabling, making 18 sits, with the 12$ ABI.

In a month i play a ~1k games and ~500 in the second example.
May we have a small bankroll for the 2nd cenario? If i play less tables my focus is higher...

Well obviously higher focus will result in an higher ROI% and prolly in less variance. But i dont think this will affect your swings thát much to lower your brm from 200 to 100bi's or someth. like that. :P

@ Matt wolfe? In whose? 3rs? Seems pretty standard 150bi swingy.

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02-19-2013 , 02:58 PM

#29

Matt Wolfe

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,248

3rs and 8s only (never filtered for them individually, but i think my 8s will be a lot bigger than my 3r), ye guessing it is normal, had loads of 1k downswings in them, but 1.8k just felt brutal

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02-20-2013 , 07:05 AM

#30

wackyradish

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 421

150 buyin downers/session can occure, if you run really bad. So I guess you were running more than good to only have 30-40 ABI downswings.

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02-20-2013 , 07:15 AM

#31

Aliquantum

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,691

A fair amount of misinformation in here. If you look at any regular grinder's 180 graph with a large sample, they will have multiple 200+ bi downswings, and some will have 300+ bi downswings.

Anyone playing a mix of 3rs and 8s without 3k+ is tempting fate. I'd even recommend more, because very few people can continue to play poker unaffected when faced with losing 3/4's of their bankroll.

http://www.deucescracked.com/blogs/b...ability-Graphs

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02-21-2013 , 03:21 AM

#32

MoViN.tArGeT

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 6,183

ya like 5k lol

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02-21-2013 , 06:25 AM

#33

sayakmitra

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 635

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliquantum

http://www.deucescracked.com/blogs/b...ability-Graphs

Spot on. I was trying to find this graph (by basemetal if I remember it correct) as well.

400 BI at leats to be comfortable imo.

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02-21-2013 , 06:26 AM

#34

ace23spades

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 164

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliquantum

wow thanks for that link im member at dc but didnt see.

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02-21-2013 , 07:50 AM

#35

YoungKhalifa

journeyman

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 310

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potamito

25% ROI at the $2.50 over 1k games its not "crushing", not saying you´re not able to sustain it over a larger sample but think ur overestimating your results. And yes, im having the same issua as you regarding $3r and $8, running ridiculously better at the $8 than at the $3r, and trust me, 100 buy ins downers arent even considering variance, its just so damn common at these 180s, every single turbos 180s regular that plays at least 2,000 games a month on averga has at LEAST one 200 buy ins downer every month.

at LEAST lol ?? just no.

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02-21-2013 , 08:49 AM

#36

Potamito

banned

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,746

Do you play more than 2k turbos 180s a month and dont go through a 200 buy ins downer at least onces?

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02-21-2013 , 08:59 AM

#37

grundyboy

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 24

300-400 bi is pretty standard to be pretty safe

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02-21-2013 , 09:47 AM

#38

YoungKhalifa

journeyman

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 310

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potamito

Do you play more than 2k turbos 180s a month and dont go through a 200 buy ins downer at least onces?

yes, of course that happens

u say it like its a guarantee for every 180 man grinder to go on a at least one 200+ bi downswing per 2k game month, which is just not true.

that obv doesnt mean that its uncommon to go on 200-300 buyin downswing

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02-25-2013 , 08:50 AM

#39

suprguard

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 603

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sokz

But wow suprguard by downswing we dont meen losingstreak oid? 30-40bi's is pretty darn solid if thats ur largest.
90-125 bi downswings are quite ocasional at 2.5s even when ur crushing them with 35+% roi.

Recommend 200bi's for 2.5s (e.g. $500); 200 abi for 3rs (e.g. ~2.4k) and 300 for 8s (e.g. $2,4k) if u play them without mixing in 2s.

I'm confused. What's the difference between a losing streak and downswing?

I think 125 BI downswing on 2.50 180s is really big. That's $312,5 and should be even normal you say? Really I never experienced anything like that. I also play only 50 180s a day, maybe that's the difference?

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02-25-2013 , 12:09 PM

#40

Robinho2611

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,329

Losing streak is literally how many games can you play in a row without cashing. I guess typical numbers can't really exceed 40 or so. It's pretty meaningless though.

Downswing is peak - trough of graph.

As for the original question, depends completely on your win rate. At a 2% ROI play with no fewer than 1,000BI. At 20%, 200 should be enough. If you're still experimenting with these, take the numbers posted ITT and add some.

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02-25-2013 , 02:58 PM

#41

Natek258

newbie

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 34

I have about 20k 180s logged at ~$8 average stake (and 10K MTTs ~$10 average stake). I wouldn't feel completely comfortable without a 5k roll, especially if you're mixing in MTTs.

This is probably pretty conservative, but a 500 BI downswing will happen for most everyone at some point playing this sort of schedule. I would just control your average BI by mixing 2.50s, 8s, 3r, and smaller MTTs to maintain at least 500 BI. Moving to 15s and 35s and bigger MTTs as you progress.

Just my .02, GLHF

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02-25-2013 , 03:12 PM

#42

Potamito

banned

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,746

Solid first post

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02-27-2013 , 11:05 AM

#43

AAsnapfold

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 220

I used to check my sharkscope everyday.Don't do that is bad.Only look at your stats when on an upswing.That way you can trick your brain that your always winning.
I just did 400BI. downswing at $2.50 180's. Didn't affect me as i didn't look at stats until i was winning.

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03-01-2013 , 03:50 AM

#44

Gildo

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 439

400bi at 2s?

Keep grindin'

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03-01-2013 , 04:29 AM

#45

plo ufo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 4,941

just grind 2s, 8s and 4.5s

patience.

tolerance.

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03-02-2013 , 01:16 AM

#46

jorginho88

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 16

Yo,

Just wondering whats the best possible sustainable roi in the 2.5 180.

I have ~45% in 3.1k sits.

Regs with the higher rois over large samples?

Thanks

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03-02-2013 , 01:56 AM

#47

TheWard

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 123

that's impressive 45% roi but still can be lots of positive variance..
If u have like 10 k games and ur still around 45% then i think u have one of the highest roi's from anyone who grinds these games in 2013
I think over a larger samples around 35 and maybe 40%roi is sustainable.
gl

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03-02-2013 , 09:36 AM

#48

Livedk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,078

yeah people will tell you that its not sustainable, it obv is, but there is a difference between $/hour and roi.

you cant play 16+ tables and maintain 40%+ roi

but it is better to play 16 tables with 25-30% than it is to play 6-8 with 45%

and you wont see too many 10k+ games players who crush 2.5s because they move up in stakes.

3.5 rebuys plays almost as soft as 2.5 and the hourly will skyrocket.

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03-02-2013 , 10:50 AM

#49

fidstar-poker

I'm gonna need a hacksaw

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 32,976

nice numbers.

I do wish my ROI would increase by 1% every time the question is asked :P

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03-02-2013 , 12:01 PM

#50

jorginho88

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWard

Thanks, yeh ive been discussing the sustainable rois with a bud and he says its only between 20 an 30, and i posted this because i was curious to know what people think here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livedk

Yeah I understand that but i always played 24 to 30 tables

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