...and if so, what would you do? Tanked river for a while as I wasn't happy with my options.

4bet pre because villain had too good a 3bet spot. Not GTO but hey.

Big 11.

PokerStars - 15/30 Ante 4 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 88.47 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
MP: 115.1 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
Hero (MP+1): 91.37 BB
CO: 109.7 BB (VPIP: 17.44, PFR: 10.58, 3Bet Preflop: 2.80, Hands: 285)
BTN: 97.97 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
SB: 98.47 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
BB: 99.47 BB (VPIP: 26.88, PFR: 19.20, 3Bet Preflop: 7.21, Hands: 283)
UTG: 99.47 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)

8 players post ante of 0 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.57 BB) Hero has J A

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, CO calls 2.5 BB, BTN raises to 11 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 24 BB, fold, BTN calls 13 BB

Flop: (53.07 BB, 2 players) 6 T A
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (53.07 BB, 2 players) 4
Hero bets 17.5 BB, BTN calls 17.5 BB

River: (88.07 BB, 2 players) 7
Hero bets 49.73 BB and is all-in

Open to 3x based on stack sizes. Why are you 4 betting here. This is a pitch pre. 4 betting aj early in a tourny here where lots of play is left.... crazy 4 bet. I don’t think you are ever called by worse on river.

Fold pre and find better spots.

I don't understand the "lots of play left" reasoning. Please explain why that should deter.

4b with AJ on level 1?

What is the range of hands that will call a 4bet? You are playing bingo by 4 betting aj in level 1. In a tournament with a solid structure such as a 11bi mtt on Starz, you can be patient and wait for much clearer spots to get chips in.

Fold to 3 bet. There isn’t much else to say about this hand.

For the record, it is a bluff.

If calling the 3bet is a worse option that flatting (I agree) then explain what hands would be better to 4bet bluff with?

I still don't understand the merits of being patient. I want to maximise and accumulate or do something else.

I don’t mind the 4bet pre as a bluff of course. It’s a very good spot to 3bet light for the BTN and we can’t call AJo so I much prefer to 4bet if we do decide to play the hand. It’s obviously a move we kind of have to be careful with and I think it’s a fair point that we don’t really need to get too fancy in the BIG11 but I kind of like myself if I get a good feel for the spot.

I don’t think we should be betting the turn. Our 4bet will pretty much never be called by any worse and I'd put a loose flat call range here as 99+ AQo+. I’d just use it as a bluff catcher instead to give some protection to the times I do have hands such as KK, QQ and maybe give him a chance to try and bluff us. Not really sure what you're trying to get value from on the river as JJ or QQ seems like the only hand that he could potentially have that are worse than ours and I don't expect them to hero much.

Pre is a spew readless

As played, fine then check river

I am curious why do you want to 4-bet bluff at all versus unknown opponent who has the deep stack?

Do you believe villain gets to the river with hands he would bluff with?

If I truly believed he's never bluffing/has no air then check fold was my best option, but I didn't feel like I could find a fold in the moment therefore I was about to pay off his value while he gets to showdown JJ, QQ Axs etc for free.

Is there any merit in jamming if the money is going in anyway to stop villain freerolling a showdown even if he almost never pays off with worse?

The actual opponent is unknown but I have a number of population reads:

- If he is ever going to 3b light, it will likely be from the button or small blind, followed by the CO or BB
- The flatter rarely has a hand that can withstand a 3b and is effectively additional dead money
- I'm opening HJ and likely have a HJ range
- He will struggle facing a 4b as he is not used to being fought back at in that manner

Additional meta benefits:

- He is likely to find a better spot to recklessly 3b in future because as you guys have made clear, you don't want action in the "warm up" levels and are not trying to play for it all

A lot of players at these stakes are unable to recognize how little showdown value a hand such as JJ has in this spot and will rarely bluff. I still think it's the superior option to just check as I think it's unlikely we get paid enough to justify a jam and some will recognize how this could be something like QQ, KK and might choose to attack it.

I personally just like to bluff catch with a weak ax that I used as 4b bluff as I feel this allows me to just not worry about folding too much once I check river. It's just how I like to approach the spot and I feel it makes things easier once I check the river and face a bet with a hand such as KK.

We could also choose to see it as a scenario where we instead of giving him a "freeroll" we get to make more money from QQ, KK as these hands now won't be bluffed off and therefore will be making more money than they probably should, so if that's the case we aren't really losing value against these guys that "freeroll" we're just getting our value with different hands.

Stop doing that in the first level of an online micro donkament lol.. without reads to justify getting out of line all you are doing is punting chips pure and simple

are those "population reads" based on the numbers derived from the statatistically significant sample size? If the answer is no, then there is no any reason to believe them except of blind faith that is prob not the best guide in poker.
People in this thread do not suggest avoiding action, they suggest avoiding pot bloating with marginal hands against unknown opponents in the early stages of micro stakes tournaments.
Of course those suggestion do not make sense if you play for fun and look for action. I am not sure what's your goal though.

This is very convincing.

Even if jamming penalises the 'never bluff' opponent (which I can't know about this guy anyway with 0 hands) the cost is having a river check range that is hugely imbalanced which should be attacked hyper aggressively and I'd have to station with hands that have no business if I wanted to put up any sort of defense.

Why do we play tournaments? I like poker theory but I dont like the idea of having to harvest millions of stats or be at a disadvantage, or aggressively table select. I also like bad players.

So we choose tournaments, where information is even more incomplete. You can't wait for stone cold reads because they'll rarely come. You rarely get to play more that 150 hands with any given player.

So what is the solution? Employ a somewhat balanced strategy that exploits the common imbalances of small stakes players. If I were UTG and got 3bet do you think I would 4b? No. 99% of stakes players dont mess around with UTG, plus AJo is closer to the bottom of my UTG range so I can pitch it and still have enough hands to defend with. If I cbet river and get raised, what do I call with? Not one pair that's for sure. They Always Have It.

So I think you do yourself a disservice playing a nit style waiting for reads that never come (ironically you're the hugely imbalanced one, deviating most from optimal without reads). Then by the time you pick up enough hands to feel comfortable you'll say "oh no, its the bubble, gotta tighten up!"

Finally, I currently play on a 12" screen and can only 6 table but have about 11 "must play" MTTs in session. I have no incentive to consider level 1 a practice round. Opportunity cost of the screen space is too great.

okay, so your style is based on blind faith in imaginary list of common imbalances of small stakes player, good luck with that

It really doesn't matter if they're "donks". I categorise players in two main groups. Those who want to win and those who don't (i.e. maniacs).

Maniacs, I'll let them do their thing. Players who want to win (stupid people, smart people, regs, donks whoever) don't want to go broke in hand 4 on their favourite poker night. You'd be surprised how quickly these so-called stations smarten up when stacks are in play.

Do you accept that a solution of the game would involve some 4bet bluffs, even in the sacred level 1?

If so, the onus is on you to explain what blind faith possesses you to deviate so wildly? Are you imagining small stakes players never 3b light?