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Small Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of small stakes MTT strategy

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Old 05-09-2017, 05:50 AM   #1
Leia Amidala
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PSKO 5$ 90man 70bbisch allin pre, no idea what to do

PokerStars - 10/20 Ante 3 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 69.55 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
MP+1: 79.1 BB (VPIP: 20.10, PFR: 14.80, 3Bet Preflop: 10.08, Hands: 633)
MP+2: 72.9 BB (VPIP: 14.81, PFR: 16.00, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 27)
CO: 13.35 BB (VPIP: 55.56, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
BTN: 150.15 BB (VPIP: 75.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
SB: 79.25 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
BB: 66.9 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
Hero (UTG): 74.4 BB
UTG+1: 69.4 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)

9 players post ante of 0.15 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.85 BB) Hero has A J

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, MP raises to 69.4 BB and is all-in, fold, fold, CO calls 13.2 BB and is all-in, fold, fold, BB calls 65.75 BB and is all-in, Hero ?

i really have no idea what to do here. could be an insta muck, or insta call because i cover everybody.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:09 AM   #2
spand42
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Re: PSKO 5$ 90man 70bbisch allin pre, no idea what to do

fold for me - bounties aren't really worth it at this point. AJ doesn't play well in a multiway all in.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:44 AM   #3
Leia Amidala
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Re: PSKO 5$ 90man 70bbisch allin pre, no idea what to do

fwiw: bounties are very valuable in the beginning of a tournament.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:51 AM   #4
spand42
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Re: PSKO 5$ 90man 70bbisch allin pre, no idea what to do

Each bounty is worth less than 1/4 of the BI.

It's not worth massively reducing your chances of going deep by chasing a bounty or two early. They'll come to you later if you stay deep. It can be worth chasing bounties later on when they're a more significant portion of the prize pool.
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:09 AM   #5
Leia Amidala
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Re: PSKO 5$ 90man 70bbisch allin pre, no idea what to do

you dont compare the value of the bounty with the actual prizepool. Only when you are in ICM mode is this the way to do it. Only thing we can do is convert the bounty to a chip value (where 1 bounty lies roughly between 600-1500 chips). And because the blinds are low its often more significant early then later. in a PSKO this can not be the case ofc. but that does not matter. we should just evaluate the situation as it is here.
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:17 AM   #6
spand42
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Re: PSKO 5$ 90man 70bbisch allin pre, no idea what to do

You're always in ICM mode in a tourney. In PKOs the bounties go dramatically up when you stay in. Busting early denies you the chance of going for higher bounties later on as well as getting in the normal prize funds as well.

I think in this spot it's largely irrelevant because AJo is in terrible shape vs two all ins.
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:37 AM   #7
Leia Amidala
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Re: PSKO 5$ 90man 70bbisch allin pre, no idea what to do

Quote:
Originally Posted by spand42 View Post
You're always in ICM mode in a tourney. In PKOs the bounties go dramatically up when you stay in. Busting early denies you the chance of going for higher bounties later on as well as getting in the normal prize funds as well.

I think in this spot it's largely irrelevant because AJo is in terrible shape vs two all ins.
It doesnt matter the bounties go drastically up. On a FT the avg bounty is about 10$. Which is 5 times the starting bounty. But the avg stack is around 15k. This means that a bounty of 10$ is roughly 20% of avg FT stack. While early on, a bounty of 2.3$ is worth around 50% of the avg stack.

i think you are looking at in absolute terms. Which is not optimal imo.
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:39 AM   #8
spand42
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Re: PSKO 5$ 90man 70bbisch allin pre, no idea what to do

You don't get $2.3 though, you get $1.15?
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Old 05-10-2017, 10:36 AM   #9
2MuchLuckWillKillU
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Re: PSKO 5$ 90man 70bbisch allin pre, no idea what to do

calling ak/jj

sure you have people rejamming a8 off for 70bb but ajo plays extremely bad multiway .
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:27 PM   #10
Leia Amidala
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Re: PSKO 5$ 90man 70bbisch allin pre, no idea what to do

I think the other players had: ATo, QTo, and 77s. Lol.

Yeah you get 1.15$. But from a 10$ FT bounty you also only get 5$. It doenst matter. A single bounty is worth chip x amount. At the first hand this is about 50% of our stack. At the final table its only 20%-isch (on avg). So we should deviate our play more in the first hand then on the final table. In theory. Ofcourse there are players at the FT with massive bounties and we should def take that into effect . all im saying that ignoring them from the start (or simply stating we wait to go after bounties until they represent a bigger % of the total prizepool) is very wrong imho.

Last edited by Leia Amidala; 05-10-2017 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:27 PM   #11
Snake-glory
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Re: PSKO 5$ 90man 70bbisch allin pre, no idea what to do

Fold is good here
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Old 05-17-2017, 04:44 AM   #12
buttonko
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Re: PSKO 5$ 90man 70bbisch allin pre, no idea what to do

I agree with Leia´s statement, that generally the the value of the bounties is more crucial in the early stages of the tournament. Obviously there are some instances in PSKO, where on the FT a villain has a huge bounty (more % of a stack than in the early phase), but rarely.

To EV calculation:
I gave villain´s these ranges (just an estimate):
MP: 88+,AJs+,AQo+
CO: 44+,A8s+,KTs+,QJs,ATo+,KQo
BB: 99+,AQs+,AKo

Now still not sure what exact chip value should we give to bounties, but I worked with 600 chips in dead money per 2.3$ bounty. Then I just did EV calculation counting our equity in all three pots (main pot and 2 side pots). Results:
EVc : (%win.pot)-cost + (%win.pot)-cost + (%win.pot)-cost
EVc (AJo): (0,14.72.45)-13,2 + (0,19-187,65)-52,55 + (0,316*37,3)-3,65= -11,8 BBs

So AJo is a snap fold here. BE hands in this spot are QJs, KJs+, 88. Clear calls are AQs+, AKo and 99+. Hopefully the calculation are fine as well as the formula...If not let me know please.
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:07 AM   #13
Leia Amidala
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Re: PSKO 5$ 90man 70bbisch allin pre, no idea what to do

i dont understand why you made the main pot 72.45bb. There are 4 players who all put in 13.2bb = 52.8. (+ dead anties)
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Old 05-17-2017, 06:21 AM   #14
buttonko
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Re: PSKO 5$ 90man 70bbisch allin pre, no idea what to do

Leia +20bbs (bounty of the shorty). But the main pot calc is wrong anyway I think.
I forgot to discount our oraise and messed up the whole pot a bit. It should be like this:
(0,14*(13.2+13.2+13.2+13.2+2.85+20))- 10.2
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