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 12-05-2018, 10:46 PM #1 PaulyJames200x veteran   Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 2,286 Progressive Tournaments Question I know with these, you are suppose to play a lot looser because of the bounties. Example in a bounty builder say 11 dollar tournament with 2.50 bounties, if that player has 2.50... that means you add the starting stack which is 5000 chips to the pot when calling all in right? You also factor that when considering implied odds right? Now here is where i'm a bit confused. If you are getting 2 to 1 or more odds due to the bounty... is it pretty much almost any 2 cards all? Well if its 3 to 1 odds or better, its pretty much any 2 cards calling an all in assuming no more action? Now this is where it gets confusing. Let say a player shoves and you are getting great odds. But this also means its for your entire stack... let say its 15bb or less to make it simple. Like are you calling all in from the BB with say Q10s if that player jams in lojack due to their bounty? Also is there an easier way to calculate the bounty and pot odds? Example if someone has a 20 dollar bounty on them and each bounty is worth 2.50, well thats 8 x whatever starting stack is which is 5000 so 40000 chips more. But when the number gets a lot bigger, any quick math tricks to calculate it faster? The other thing is this. How does it work when its heads up? Let say other player has 100 dollar in bounty to make it simple. So bounty is 2.50. So its 40x. So 40 x 5000 starting stack so 200000 more chips. But i know you also get your bounty back right? Or is it 1/2? So let say your bounty that is showing shows 130 dollars. So you factor the other players 100 dollar bounty so 40x the 2.50 bounty... but how much are you suppose to add also to your own bounty? Or you not suppose to? Like when they jam all in... okay 100 dollar bounty so thats 200000 more chips. But you factor yourself chips right and how you do that?
 12-05-2018, 11:53 PM #2 PaulyJames200x veteran   Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 2,286 Re: Progressive Tournaments Question Alright so i looked at some articles and bit confused on the math here. Let say its a bounty tournament 11 dollar buyin with 2.50 bounties. Starting stack of 5000 chips. So let say blinds are 15/30 with a 3 chip ante to make it simple and 3k starting stack. It folds to sb who jams 167bb all in to make it simple. So here in the BB, if no bounty is involved and it is regular tournament, well you need to call 4970 to win like over 5k in chips so you need big amount of equity to call. But if this is bounty tournament... do you first look at the players stack size or their bounty amount first? Because i thought you look at the bounty amount... so say its 2.50. I thought it was okay now its over 5k chips to win... but because that player jam all stack and we cover them... that 5k chips is worth 2.50... so its now 4970 to win over 10k chips so you need a bit over 33 percent equity to call? However, i read an article where it says its like 4970 chips to win over 15000 so its like over 3 to 1. However that article did mention when stars bounty tournaments didn't the amount you get but half the amount. But whether its that or not... how is the calculation done here? I always thought it was look at how much their bounty is... let say its 5 dollars when the bounty is 2.50. Then you just add in starting stack which is 5000... times 2.... so another 10000 in chips when factoring pot odds. So this is incorrect? This gets very confusing the most when it gets to heads up because you get your full bounty back. But how do you calculate this?
 12-06-2018, 11:07 AM #3 Darth_Maul veteran   Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 3,292 Re: Progressive Tournaments Question I didn't really follow that last part... If you only get half the bounty, then the bounty is only worth half the starting stack equivalent. Did you come across the article on Upswing poker that covers this topic?
 12-06-2018, 01:07 PM #4 PaulyJames200x veteran   Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 2,286 Re: Progressive Tournaments Question Hi there. Yes there was an article on upswing about this topic. But the thing is back then, stars would show the bounty amount on each player but you only get half it. Okay so with 5k starting stacks and 2.50 bounties... if a player jams with a 2.50 bounty, you add 2500 chips instead of 5000? So a player has 25 dollar bounty. I thought you add 50000 chips to the pot... but its 25000? In another thread someone mentioned because 2.50 is like 20 percent of the 11 dollar buyin, its only 20 percent of 5000 chips or 1100 chips only. So for every 2.50 bounty a player has, you add 1100 chips. That does not seem correct. So you get half the starting stack like you mention? In the article, they said it was entire stack.
 12-07-2018, 07:06 AM #6 Percyeus86 grinder     Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: God's Own County. Posts: 576 Re: Progressive Tournaments Question ChipsValue (starting bounty) = \$Value of Starting Bounty / remaining \$ value of starting stack chips So, in your example with the \$11 entry. 2.50 / 5.50 + 2.50 = 1/3 roughly 1550 chips Another example. We're playing a \$100 PKO. \$50 + \$50 and we can win \$25 at the start. \$25 ÷ \$50 + \$25 = 1/3 Last edited by Percyeus86; 12-07-2018 at 07:19 AM.
12-07-2018, 09:27 AM   #7
Darth_Maul
veteran

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,292
Re: Progressive Tournaments Question

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Percyeus86 ChipsValue (starting bounty) = \$Value of Starting Bounty / remaining \$ value of starting stack chips So, in your example with the \$11 entry. 2.50 / 5.50 + 2.50 = 1/3 roughly 1550 chips Another example. We're playing a \$100 PKO. \$50 + \$50 and we can win \$25 at the start. \$25 ÷ \$50 + \$25 = 1/3
I don't follow this at all

 12-07-2018, 11:06 AM #8 PaulyJames200x veteran   Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 2,286 Re: Progressive Tournaments Question Okay so i'm confused why is there is this huge confusion. I thought this was something that is very simple and different posters have different answers to all of this. And of course i thought you had to add the starting stack to an all in which is 5000 chips for a 11 dollar bounty builder for every 2.50 bounty a player has. Thus if a player has 5 dollar bounty, i add 10000 chips to the pot. So can others add to this? Again surprised b/c i thought this was a simple question since its like a rules question which i had wrong since no one seem to say yea... you add the starting stack to it for every 2.50 in bounties.
12-07-2018, 11:32 AM   #9
Percyeus86
grinder

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: God's Own County.
Posts: 576
Re: Progressive Tournaments Question

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Darth_Maul I don't follow this at all
Using the \$100 PKO example.

\$50 goes into the prize pool and \$50 into the bounties. \$25 is the starting bounty value. The remainder is our stack value which is worth \$75 as we can win our own bounty (this number will change as the tournament goes on).

So, the starting bounty is worth 1/3 of our stack. If it's 10000, then it's 3333. Quite simple.

12-07-2018, 12:30 PM   #10
Percyeus86
grinder

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: God's Own County.
Posts: 576
Re: Progressive Tournaments Question

Quote:
 Originally Posted by PaulyJames200x Okay so i'm confused why is there is this huge confusion. I thought this was something that is very simple and different posters have different answers to all of this. And of course i thought you had to add the starting stack to an all in which is 5000 chips for a 11 dollar bounty builder for every 2.50 bounty a player has. Thus if a player has 5 dollar bounty, i add 10000 chips to the pot. So can others add to this? Again surprised b/c i thought this was a simple question since its like a rules question which i had wrong since no one seem to say yea... you add the starting stack to it for every 2.50 in bounties.
Again, the 100\$ PKO example.

First hand, we're BB..folds to SB who jams. The pot will be 10000 + 3333 (chip bounty) = 13,433.

This means we need 42% to make the call. Without the bounty we would need 50%.

 12-07-2018, 08:53 PM #11 PaulyJames200x veteran   Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 2,286 Re: Progressive Tournaments Question How could it be worth that little? If that is the case, then when blinds are 10k/20k and say a player has a 20 dollar bounty on him... 2.50 original bounty as 11 dollar bounty builder with 5k starting stack. So you telling me this would be an additional 10k in chips to consider when calling an all in? That doesn't seem right because if that is the case, then players wouldn't be going for bounties that.
 12-08-2018, 07:54 PM #12 PaulyJames200x veteran   Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 2,286 Re: Progressive Tournaments Question Anyone can answer this? So is the article from upswing incorrect then? The issue here is i can't imagine each bounty is worth anything less than 1/2 the starting stack. I had thought it was entire stack. But if its less than 1/2 the stack, wouldn't that mean the bounty wouldn't mean that much then? However players play for bounties a lot especially when its high. Now if every 2.50 meant the starting stack of 5000 chips, that makes sense why ppl play so aggressive. If it only meant 2500 chips or 1/2... well still i understand it. But i can't imagine for every 2.50 bounty a player has... you had anything less than 2500 chips assuming 5k starting stack. Can someone clarify this? So 5k starting stacks, with 2.50 bounty on each player to start... for every 2.50 bounty... you had 2500 or 5k chips? So if a player has 25 dollar bounty... do you add 50000 chips? Or 25000 chips? Or is it some other number.
 12-09-2018, 01:51 AM #13 PaulyJames200x veteran   Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 2,286 Re: Progressive Tournaments Question Also someone mentioned that when you get to heads up, you are suppose to completely ignore the other player's bounty. Is that true or false? So example in a 11 BB to make it simple with 5k starting stacks... lets just say the other players bounty is 200 dollars. Thus if the other player jams... well... i would thought 200/2.50 bounty = 80. Then take 80 X 5k starting stack so 400k more in chips. Then factor that into it. So that incorrect? Because others say its only 1/2 the starting stack in a bounty builder. So it would be 40 x 5k so 200k more in chips? However someone mentioned in heads up, you are suppose to ignore bounty calculation because its basically you win all the chips or nothing as its basically a heads up sng at the end? So that would mean if that player jams all in... you are suppose play normally heads up AS OPPOSE TO ADDING the 400k or 200k or 100k chip into the equation?
 12-09-2018, 10:48 PM #14 PaulyJames200x veteran   Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 2,286 Re: Progressive Tournaments Question Can anyone here chime in on this? There is no way the bounty could be worth anything less than 1/2 the starting stack at the absolute minimum. I always thought it was worth the entire stack but i could see how it shouldn't because 1/2 the buyin goes to the bounty.
 12-10-2018, 12:25 PM #15 Percyeus86 grinder     Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: God's Own County. Posts: 576 Re: Progressive Tournaments Question \$100 buy in. \$25 bounty on a 10,000 stack. We've paid \$75 for the chance to win the regular prize pool, hence 10,000 chips is worth \$75. If we put our stack on the line to win another stack, do we win \$75? No. Therefore, at the very start, the starting bounty is \$25 and we divide this by the remaining \$ value of our chips (\$75) to get the % worth of the chips value. 1 starting stack = 33%, or 3333 chips. In your example with the \$11, it would be 2.75 ÷ 5.50 + 2.75 which is again, 33%. If it was a \$20 entry with \$10 starting bounty, then we'd do \$10 ÷ \$10 = 100%, so 1 starting bounty would be worth 1 full starting stack. One thing to note, especially in a PKO, is the increasing worth of a starting starting stack as the bounty prizepool decreases. Let's say that after 30 mins, only 75% of the bounty pool remains, we'd then work this out as follows: \$25 ÷ \$50 + (75% × \$25) = \$25 ÷ \$50 + \$18.75 = 36.4%. Therefore, 1 starting bounty would be worth 3640 chips. Last edited by Percyeus86; 12-10-2018 at 12:37 PM.
 12-10-2018, 07:30 PM #17 PaulyJames200x veteran   Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 2,286 Re: Progressive Tournaments Question Okay im now confused with your last line. You say in a progressive, starting stack worth is more as bounty prizepool increases. Then you use that calculation. I don't have a clue what you mean by this. So as more players get eliminated you need to calculate the bounty differently? That makes no sense. So a bounty is worth less when its 50% field remains as oppose to 35%? Are you suppose to check what is the total number of players left in the tournament at all times or something? That would seem ridiculous...
 12-12-2018, 12:34 AM #18 PaulyJames200x veteran   Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 2,286 Re: Progressive Tournaments Question Anyone with an answer to this? I can't believe there isn't even a clear answer to how much starting chips is a bounty worth in a bounty progressive tournament. Like for every 2.50 in a 11 dollar bounty builder with 5k starting stacks... how much chips is it? Getting more than 1 different answer doesn't even make sense.
 12-12-2018, 11:15 AM #19 Percyeus86 grinder     Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: God's Own County. Posts: 576 Re: Progressive Tournaments Question How many times do you want me to clarify? I cannot say it any differently.
 12-12-2018, 08:49 PM #20 PaulyJames200x veteran   Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 2,286 Re: Progressive Tournaments Question Hi there. But others say its 1/4 the stack... whereas you say 1/3 the stack. The thing is why does no one agree with you then? This is confusing because i thought the answer is very simple and thought it would been a quick yea its worth full stack or half stack.
12-13-2018, 03:20 AM   #21
Percyeus86
grinder

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: God's Own County.
Posts: 576
Re: Progressive Tournaments Question

Quote:
 Originally Posted by PaulyJames200x Hi there. But others say its 1/4 the stack... whereas you say 1/3 the stack. The thing is why does no one agree with you then? This is confusing because i thought the answer is very simple and thought it would been a quick yea its worth full stack or half stack.
I've shown you the calculations! These are what I learnt doing the Raise Your Edge bounty course.

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