Hi guys

I am really stuck with these 3bet pots, i feel regs always take the best of me

Lets look at this "extreme" example where my perceived 3bet range should be pretty strong

Villain is 29/16 on 300 hands. Fold to cbet 46%
This is the range i assign him: QQ-22,AQo,AQs-ATs,A5s,KQs-KTs,QJs-QTs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,AKo[/50]

So we:

1) Cbet and fire a second barrel w/ a broadway ?
2) C/F?
3) C/C?

Even with lesser boarded pairs (like 557) (which impact less on villain´s 3bet call range) i have same issues: i cbet, villain holds, i brick the turn and...

I am beggining to C/F (OTF or OTT) these boards as i was losing a ton of chips some help is needed

[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $9 Buy-in (500/1,000 blinds, 125 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): 67,719 (67.7 bb)
BB: 31,680 (31.7 bb)
UTG+1: 111,160 (111.2 bb)
UTG+2: 17,804 (17.8 bb)
MP1: 38,822 (38.8 bb)
MP2: 58,104 (58.1 bb)
MP3: 8,153 (8.2 bb)
CO: 35,932 (35.9 bb)
BTN: 37,591 (37.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A Q
3 folds, MP2 raises to 2,090, 3 folds, Hero raises to 8,000, BB folds, MP2 calls 5,910

Flop: (18,125) T 9 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks

Turn: (18,125) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets 6,344, Hero folds

I don't think I'm folding turn getting 4-1 tbh. I think you just have to defend it on the turn for this sizing.

Uummm can you elaborate more?

I mean, we have 6 outs (12%) and we need 20% to call right?;

Also perhaps those outs are dirty as villain can have a T (i know not a lot of combos here)

Also is not our hand face up? So now villain knows we dont have DP+, that we have probably some draw or high cards which allows him to play in a perfect way OTR right? He can bluff us out of the pot with a brick if he flatted the cbet with who knows what and we cant do nothing about it can we?

Tbh i see a lot of regs taking your line when i am the one who flats the cbet and bet OTT and they call too my second bet OTR so now that you say it perhaps it´s a kind of standard line if we are IP and think villain is aggro enough to fire twice with air....

Anyway, thanks, i will go into the tank and think about you say

I'm c-betting flop, around 1/4 to 1/3 pot. folding to raise. As played I'm calling villain turn bet with those pot odds and range advantage.

Villain can just have draws like QJ/KQdd etc, can also maybe just have ace high as well, we aren't figuring we're just always behind when we call. We would be defending a min frequency (as in we have to defend some hands here that aren't just Tx/overpairs/9999/T's full which we likely bet our Tx on the flop but we would only 3b ATs prob and maybe 9Ts which would likely check flop some %) and AQ is pretty near the top of our unmade defend range. Granted we block QJ/KQ but we don't block diamonds and we have some showdown. Plus the price we're getting they don't have to be drawing that often for us to call profitably. I don't think villain has T's full and 9999 is one combo obv. He could have 9Ts/89s tho too.

Uummm so you think OTR that :

the times we hit our A or Q + times when villain desists with his QJ or KQ and checks back and we win makes the call OTT good on the long run?

Does villain checks back OTR enough times? That´s my issue here, they ALWAYS bet because of my weak line (i checked the flop and called a weak call OTT, they know i dont have a DP+)

You seem to think that villain both has a hand leaving you drawing to six outs and they they're betting just to blow you off your hand. Both can't be true.

I don't mind the flop check given the texture but really don't think you can fold turn.

I really don't think your line is weak because you simply checked the flop tho. I mean you can easily have showdown hands here as well as AQ high. Like you can have AA here but have bet JJ (since jacks obviously have worse turns and block JT/J9s if J9s even peels pre that is which is marginal etc). QQ I'd prob bet most combos, betting/check a mix of KK combos and mostly can check AA here since villain can have more hands we beat. That also leaves one combo of Q9s and blocks QJ potentially turning into a bluff against our ace high.

haha that´s true, in the same session in fact i checked AA vs a similar board

Ok, next time i wont be chicken and resist the bet, if i dont try it it´s impossbile to learn

As always, thanks for your help

Cheers man, keep up the hard work.

This hands have a lot of equity on paired board. And you can use that. If you check, his range is weak, many possible bluffs, you can use that and check-call. But if you bet, his range becomes stronger. Because the FE. Vs 1/3 let's say "a little " stronger. You can use small bets with your entire range. You can just check-call. But not on this board. Here you can check-call only vs small bet. Paired, but T99 is ugly. He have good equity with some weaker hands (from pre), AT is here, A9, KT, JT, QT, I mean this is actually the hands from your target, then you decide to check-call. And some hands have outs, good equity. On 773 for example will be very different.

I will bet 50% OTF and give up here. Ass played OTT you must call. OTR I will call on some cards. Even a big bet...

I think you should add check-call with Ace high and check-raise as bluff and for value in your play. Not check-fold. But on some boards just give up. But as default the paired boards are good for call with Ace high, even vs big bets. You can see how much equity you have. Often more than him. But vs his entire range. not in reality. Still "very easy" can be a profitable call. With Ace high.

But you always can use "standard" strategy with small bets with the entire range. But imo this is a waste of value. The balanced range...

And also the kicker matters. Can be Ace high with good kicker, Ace high with weak kicker. Those are two different hands for check-call. Because he will use sometime Ace high for bluff. AQ is "strong" Ace high. Even stronger if no AK in his range.