Hi guys

V is 23/8 in 61 hands , i dont remember anything remarcable about him

Anybody calling/shoving/doing another thing? and why? thanks for your thoughts


[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $4.50 Buy-in (50/100 blinds, 10 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: 12,189 (121.9 bb)
BB: 8,150 (81.5 bb)
UTG+1: 11,980 (119.8 bb)
UTG+2: 10,396 (104 bb)
MP1: 9,920 (99.2 bb)
MP2: 10,712 (107.1 bb)
Hero (MP3): 9,748 (97.5 bb)
CO: 11,441 (114.4 bb)
BTN: 7,722 (77.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A A
UTG+1 calls 100, 3 folds, Hero raises to 400, 2 folds, SB calls 350, BB folds, UTG+1 calls 300

Flop: (1,390) 8 6 2 (3 players)
SB bets 500, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to 2,200, SB calls 1,700

Turn: (5,790) 7 (2 players)
SB bets 2,895, Hero folds

I think I'm sticking it in, donk bet line to me means he improves, but we are still ahead- you see a lot of pair + draw combos. I can see reasons to fold given we have the ac and block a bunch of club draws though... and pair+ straight draw still has 14 outs.

Either way, I think fold, shove, or even call and play river are relatively close.

Sorry for double post but few more thoughts, donk-bet call raise on flop just screams draw, less made hands, and doing same on turn still screams draw, let me see the river for cheap while still giving me the chance to shove on wiffed hands or pressure out some overpairs ala jj-qq. Sucky when he does this with flopped sets or 9t, and those hands are also reasonable with his line, cus his stats show he is quite passive and chooses tricky lines like this.

Curious , I thought the opposite : when V calls the raise OTF and donks OTT it looked to me as a super strong hand (either he had it already OTF or that turn card completed a draw)

Yeah, it's such a weird line, it's really hard to pin him on a range. His stats and what it says about the line he took is interesting. He clearly has loosish-passive tendencies. Does this mean we should default and think he will play made hands trappy? A lot of passive guys default to trapping strong hands, instead he's leading out on you, twice, and even when you've shown strength. If he thinks the board is really draw heavy with a lot of bad turns like this one that kill his action, why doesn't he throw in another raise in the flop and try to get you to commit if he flopped a set? Why did he choose to lead with such a small bet size?

I think the million dollar question is what is he doing with 97/ 89/ 8t? He clearly has those in his range, and when he's got clubs, does he have it in him to barrel? Am I looking to much into this and dude is just clicking buttons?

Pretty ridiculous fold on the turn here, he can easily have straight and pair + flush draws u are ahead of. He seems bad could even have just an 8 here. Call turn and evaluate river.

Turn is a clear call. AA is pretty much the top of our range. If we fold that then what do we call with ? We are also ahead of a small part of villain's range that does this for value, like 99 or TT that didn't 3bet pre. He plays 23/8, pretty passive so he might even flat pre with JJ and could be thinking he's value betting.

We would be folding way too much and villains could just relentlessly bet any two cards against us. I'm also not folding on most rivers. Probably calling on anything that's not a club or 5.

In my experience a lot of players at these stakes like to donk bet so that they get to draw on the cheap side or just get to a cheap showdown with a mediocre hand.

Small donkbets are usually draws but when he calls the raise and then donks half pot on the turn, that's unusual and looks very strong to me. That said I'm not sure I can fold AA yet. Force him to make a third bet on the river.

Another reason that induced me to fold is that if I call the bet V has a PSB OTR and thought he would shove on me , putting me in a nasty spot ;

Perhaps I anticipated (I don't know if this word exists) too much and yeah , could have called OTT and reevaluate river

In my humble opinion V line is weird and board is connected ; I don't say the fold is right (that´s the reason I post the hand , because I am not sure) but neither as simple as "I am never folding an overpair no matter what"

Anyone just call the flop, keep in villain's worse hands?

Actually that probably still means draw, and he wants to draw on the cheap side. Or something like a 1 pair hand that doesn't want to get value towned too much.

@OP: I didn't say never fold an overpair, however in this spot and given the action we have to continue. As I said if you fold everything but the nuts when villain takes this line you are going to be overfolding like crazy. He has a TON of hands that we beat like draws, some that might even do this for value, like overpairs to the board etc. Folding here is out of question.

Possibly, but he did size up on the flop and it's a pretty unusual line. Usually after getting raised with a drawing hand they will go into x/c mode on the turn to avoid another raise.

In my experience that's not true. I think they think something along the lines: 'If I check he's going to value town me/bluff me by betting a lot so I just donk to maybe see a cheap river'. Of course it's possible that we're beat, but we simply cannot fold. As a rule of thumb, whenever you beat a part of villain's value range you simply can't fold.