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KQo middle pair turned into a bluff good?? KQo middle pair turned into a bluff good??

05-08-2018 , 01:39 PM
I really need opinions on this hand. Happened in a live 80€ bi mtt full of old passive people and a few ******s here and there (including me?)

Blinds 300/600 ante 600 (paid by BTN only)
Stack: 48k (everyone involved convers me)

UTG (spazzy passive woman) limps, UTG+1 (******?) limps, folds to me (CO) i make it 2400 with K Q folds to them they both call

Pot 8700
Flop A K J
Checks to me i bet 5k, they both call

Pot 23700
Turn 6
Checks to me i bet 13k, UTG folds UTG+1 tank calls

Pot 49700
River 9
UTG+1 checks i shove for my remaining 28k


So the only mistake i think is to raise pre, this deep i can comfortably call and see a flop in position. Flop play: from the start i decide to bet flop for value and turn it into a bluff on turn river if no clubs or Q obviously. My range crushes both their ranges, i have all the sets, AK, AJs, KJs. They’ll have KJo, QJo, JT, A2s-A8s, A8o-ATo (UTG+1 might have AJo but very likely raises pre) and all sorts of flush draws. 22-88 folds flop and 99-TT raises pre (if not 99 folds flop anyway). So expect to get called up to the river by any sorts of club draws given implied odds since i’m reppin AK AJs JJ+, and thats that literally nothing can call river other than QT except the rare KJ, and specifically Ac6c and Ac9c, even those can find a fold given the action (probably not tho), but that’s it 8 combos. So i believe my hand is the perfect hand to take this line, i dont block any flush draws, i block QT and KJ, and almost nothing can call the river. And yeah he called and had Ad4d prolly had a #liveread jesus im in my car in front of the casino so ****ing tilted rn i swear im not playing live in a while

If you think the hand should be played different please tell me, i started playin 5 month ago so have a lot to learn and im open minded

Last edited by WhatsUpYoda; 05-08-2018 at 02:04 PM.
KQo middle pair turned into a bluff good?? Quote
05-08-2018 , 03:45 PM
The raise pre is not a mistake, you don't want to play KQo multiway.

I don't understand your flop thinking though. Bet for value but turn it into a bluff if no clubs fall?

The problem with your line here is that you be fired 3 bullets with 2nd pair, which is not a 3-street value hand. You have to assume that they both have plenty of Ax in their ranges, which they're not going to fold. You can't bluff players like this, you make money by value betting them to death.
KQo middle pair turned into a bluff good?? Quote
05-08-2018 , 04:31 PM
Problem with my raise is it’s too small then, no chance they fold to that sizing. Should I bet flop x/fold turn then? Can’t call turn cause they will bet more random Ax than they will bet draws. And can’t check flop to call turn either for the same reason. Seems like i lose big majority of the time with those lines, while i get folds close to always (obviously not here but still a horrendous call imo) with the line i took, plus perfect hand to do it with
KQo middle pair turned into a bluff good?? Quote
05-08-2018 , 08:22 PM
Oh wait my bad i'm in position so it doesn't matter, yeah i guess just checking back turn and going to showdown is fine then, even though i don't expect to be good ever. It just sucks but against that field you're probably right, hard to make them fold an ace even though i think this is the perfect spot to do it, at least i tried
KQo middle pair turned into a bluff good?? Quote
05-15-2018 , 12:15 AM
Raise more pre to over 3500, prob check the flop since she's spazzy so we don't wanna get dusted off our equity and we want her to have bluffs later. They can't have many flush draws either besides a few combos so not a major concern. If we bet the flop then I'd prob just check the turn and protect our range a bit. The reason to check this flop is you want to have some stronger hands to check to protect.
KQo middle pair turned into a bluff good?? Quote
05-23-2018 , 06:41 PM
Yes 3500 pre seems like a way better sizing. If i check flop i'm basically capped, i don't see any strong hand that would check that flop 3 way (except AQ?) where they have a lot of hands that want to draw, and i don't have QT in my range that would trap. A decent player will recognize that and can bet any draw on the turn to get folds or value some Ax, i can call turn but if he barrels river i don't see how i can call. So i don't think KQ is that good of a hand to protect my range with on this board, AQ seems a lot better to check flop a percentage of the time and protect your range where you can call down a double barrel turn and river.
So yeah not being sure if my opponents even know what a range is i shouldn't have tried to force a fold with range advantage, like you said check turn and probably fold river to a bet, or check it down and hope they played passive with nothing or a draw, or lose to some weak Ax. I still think my line is largely +EV and should get a lot of folds by the river tho, will try again
KQo middle pair turned into a bluff good?? Quote
05-24-2018 , 01:53 PM
We can check back some strong hands to balance that. We never have QT anyways given preflop though. They don't really have that many draws really though. Axcc already beats us and QcXc is what we'd be worried of but we block Qx combos.
KQo middle pair turned into a bluff good?? Quote
05-24-2018 , 09:30 PM
Yes i said i don't have QT in my range
You're right Kc Jc on the board takes out a lot of flush draws, and i don't care about straight draws i'm drawing to the nuts myself and block the other one. But again with KQ specifically i don't bet to protect my hand from draws i bet to get a fold from any weak Ax (they could still have all the A6 and A9 tho i just realized that, probably a call always but still tough to make i think?) + the few draws they still could have by the river when it bricked, given my line is so strong i thought a random Ax would be an easy fold to 3 barrel.
If i have AA AK KK JJ i don't block much except JQ with JJ that they have in their preflop range, and don't really want two opponents to draw for free, but i agree a Q or T will rarely hit + not so many flush draws left given this board, so it's really good to check those a percentage of the time for balance.
So again i just think KQ without Qc is the perfect hand to bully their capped ranges when everything bricks (yeah yeah not that many draws i know, still a few more hands to add that would call flop and turn), since i block the nuts, and i won't be good to often given all the random Ax they have in their range.
But i get it i can also play the hand way safer and don't risk all my chips against opponents that i don't know at all, even if it means losing the pot majority of the time

Last edited by WhatsUpYoda; 05-24-2018 at 09:37 PM.
KQo middle pair turned into a bluff good?? Quote
05-25-2018 , 04:15 PM
I mean you have the perfect hand to turn a pair into a bluff yes but I think the fishy villains that limp a lot tend to overcall their ranges on rivers vs overfolding. The issue is though this if they have all the bluffs (missed clubs/Qx etc) then they should be bluffing the river sometimes and since they also have a capped range they have to call further down in the bottom of their range. So lets say we think they can never have AA and he knows it then that means they have to call more of their range and their A4 hands that don't block flush draws. If he has AxQc then it's much tougher cause it removes so many of your bluff combos to have and he should be less happy with that than A4dd.
KQo middle pair turned into a bluff good?? Quote

      
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