Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Small Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of small stakes MTT strategy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-19-2018, 12:16 PM   #1
adam360x
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 31
Just feeling stuck, looking for advice from experienced players

So, I'm a relatively new young (under 21) hold'em player.

I've been doing a lot of studying online and reading Harrington's books, Little's books etc, which are great and I'm going to continue reading.

I've played a fair amount (10?) of smaller buy in live tournaments.. 30$ 50$ 75$ (25$ bounty) etc and cashed once out of about 100 people.

So this month, I've done about 5 ish tournaments and EVERY SINGLE ONE I'm able to get a huge chip lead. Sometimes 6-7x starting stack in the first 5-8 levels while anyone close is about 3x.

After level 10 - 15 ish, it just becomes an all-in game. Typically pre-flop, but 90% of hands either end pre-flop or with all-ins. So, as the big stack with people going all in with 10-30% of my stack, I'm usually calling them with 10-20% of hands... typically I'm ahead and it's just a luck game that I usually wind up about even...

My stack slowly keeps dwindling and there's no "poker" being played in my opinion, just luck... now I think this is typical of quick smaller buy-in tournaments? However, I'm really wanting to gain experience and become a great player...

I've thought about the answer being, well just player larger buy-in's and you'll be good... but I'm not really sure I'm that confident in my abilities yet...

Looking for advice

I've rarely played cash, but would sitting there for hours on end help me develop even stronger and more accurate ranges? Or should I just stick to NLH since that's my goal and game?

Does getting a huge chip lead in every single tournament this month mean anything?

Thanks so much.
adam360x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 01:30 PM   #2
Darth_Maul
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,292
Re: Just feeling stuck, looking for advice from experienced players

First I would look at the types of tournaments you're playing and their structures. Turbos and hyper turbos move much quicker than regular speed ones, bit also pay attention to the starting stack size.

Second, you might need to do some work on your strategy during the middle stages. It could be that you play a bit spewy with your chips and call shoves when you shouldn't. Another problem could be that you don't do enough to accumulate chips, causing your stack to stagnate.
Darth_Maul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 01:50 PM   #3
adam360x
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 31
Re: Just feeling stuck, looking for advice from experienced players

Well every small buy in tournament in Minneapolis has quick blind levels of 10-12 minutes... final table might be 15... Anything else is 150$ + buy in's which I don't mind spending money for... just trying to gain experience and what not and those tourney's happen maybe once a week.
adam360x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 03:00 PM   #4
Darth_Maul
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,292
Re: Just feeling stuck, looking for advice from experienced players

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam360x View Post
Well every small buy in tournament in Minneapolis has quick blind levels of 10-12 minutes... final table might be 15... Anything else is 150$ + buy in's which I don't mind spending money for... just trying to gain experience and what not and those tourney's happen maybe once a week.
Local live tourneys are designed to move quickly and the variance can be huge. I would take a close look at some of the hands where you're calling shoves and make sure you're making +ev calls.
Darth_Maul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 03:13 PM   #5
king15br
centurion
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Brazil
Posts: 136
Re: Just feeling stuck, looking for advice from experienced players

you need to revise the equity with your hands that you make this calls to see if is +ev.if you do +EV calls in the end the most of time you'll win more chips,even sometimes you take bad beats,what is normal.
king15br is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 04:28 PM   #6
killer_kill
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
killer_kill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Go Banana
Posts: 25,229
Re: Just feeling stuck, looking for advice from experienced players

Join upswing poker and post hands. I'm happy to help. Just read other threads for how to format them and what to include.
killer_kill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 05:50 AM   #7
cizixap
adept
 
cizixap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: On the edge of unbalanced shoving
Posts: 1,018
Re: Just feeling stuck, looking for advice from experienced players

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam360x View Post
So, I'm a relatively new young (under 21) hold'em player.

I've been doing a lot of studying online and reading Harrington's books, Little's books etc, which are great and I'm going to continue reading.

I've played a fair amount (10?) of smaller buy in live tournaments.. 30$ 50$ 75$ (25$ bounty) etc and cashed once out of about 100 people.

So this month, I've done about 5 ish tournaments and EVERY SINGLE ONE I'm able to get a huge chip lead. Sometimes 6-7x starting stack in the first 5-8 levels while anyone close is about 3x.

After level 10 - 15 ish, it just becomes an all-in game. Typically pre-flop, but 90% of hands either end pre-flop or with all-ins. So, as the big stack with people going all in with 10-30% of my stack, I'm usually calling them with 10-20% of hands... typically I'm ahead and it's just a luck game that I usually wind up about even...

My stack slowly keeps dwindling and there's no "poker" being played in my opinion, just luck... now I think this is typical of quick smaller buy-in tournaments? However, I'm really wanting to gain experience and become a great player...

I've thought about the answer being, well just player larger buy-in's and you'll be good... but I'm not really sure I'm that confident in my abilities yet...

Looking for advice

I've rarely played cash, but would sitting there for hours on end help me develop even stronger and more accurate ranges? Or should I just stick to NLH since that's my goal and game?

Does getting a huge chip lead in every single tournament this month mean anything?

Thanks so much.
I was on the same situation and here is what I did : try to deep stack games with buy-in ±$20, e.g. $22 Hot on poker stars. You mignt notice that playing deep-stack requires very advanced post-flop skills, otherwise you will end up with the medium/low stack very quickly and push/fold will be your only options. Live games are generally a way weaker than online ones. I am not sure about the US, but here in Europe live 50 euros buy-in is a WAY weaker than $22 poker stars..E.g. I am constantly end up on FT live, but playing online even $22 is f***king difficult.
cizixap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 12:30 PM   #8
goldFishshark
journeyman
 
goldFishshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 248
Re: Just feeling stuck, looking for advice from experienced players

First of all, the speed of live and online games is off by a factor of about 3. This means that basically when you’re playing a 10 min blind structure online, you’re playing the equivalent of about 30 min live. Likewise, 15 minutes live is about 5 minutes, which is turbo and 12 minutes is 4 which is almost a typical hyper turbo structure. Stay away from turbos, especially if you’re just learning, since these have the higher variance. What this means is that, since you’re essentially forced into short-stack mode quicker, you have to run better to win because when you’re all in, 100% of your and villain’s equity will be realized. Ie, imagine you go all in preflop with 10bb with pocket 8s and someone calls with AK. Sure you have a slight edge of 55% to 45% equity or so, but to make a final table, you’re going to have to win multiple of these. Winning two flips goes to .55*.55 = .30 and so on.

Unfortunately, likely the truth is, if you’re doing well in your local live tournaments, you’re just running well (as mentioned, since they’re basically hyper turbos). Also unfortunately, the most important part, by far, of tournaments is the late stages, when everyone is short stacked. Lots of recreational players spew off their stacks early on, and some even build massive stacks earlier on, but this means very little in terms of the whole. Learning how to play as both a bigger stack with short stacks in the mix and as a short stack in these stages is absolutely essential to profiting from tournaments. The truth of the matter is, virtually all poker tournaments don’t have the structure of like the WSOP Main, where players have some wiggle room to make creative plays, mistakes, etc.

There’s also still just tons of variance in mtts in general. I can’t remember exactly, but players who are considered crushers still only win (as in 1st) 5% or so, maybe even smaller. Thus the reason I would caution against the suggestion to play the above suggested $22 tournaments is because you’d need a very large bankroll and would be going on some large swings (ie being down $1,000 before you win), which I don’t think you’re ready for.

Tldr; my suggestion is to play up to $3 buy ins online, 10 min structure at minimum.
goldFishshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 12:44 PM   #9
adam360x
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 31
Re: Just feeling stuck, looking for advice from experienced players

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldFishshark View Post

Unfortunately, likely the truth is, if you’re doing well in your local live tournaments, you’re just running well (as mentioned, since they’re basically hyper turbos).
First off thanks a lot for the in-depth analysis.

When I'm getting these big chip leads, it's not really coin flip all in situations... usually I'm playing postflop really well and they're usually fish.

I guess when most of the table is in all-in mode I should be considering equity more and not just calling them with 55% etc, unless it's like 5-10% of my stack...
adam360x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 12:55 PM   #10
goldFishshark
journeyman
 
goldFishshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 248
Re: Just feeling stuck, looking for advice from experienced players

As I mentioned, recreational players will spew off their stacks early on occasionally. The mid-late stages are really the only important part of the tournament.

Read up on strategy. In the early stages you’re looking to play tight, since chips are not that valuable. In later stages, every bb gained or lost is significant. If you’re deep stacked late in the game, you can afford to take flips (trying to get it in with a high equity edge), since losing one to a short stack won’t cripple your chances, usually.

Basically, as a short stack, you’re hoping to double up and get a mid-sized stack. As a mid-sized stack, you’re hoping to double and occasionally steal blinds to get a deep stack. And as a deep stack, you’re trying to knock out short stacks, put pressure on mediums stacks, and grow your stack. Just because there’re a lot of all-in preflop hands at the later stages, this doesn’t mean there’s no strategy. In fact, the most important decision factor, not just in MTTs, but all of Poker, is stack size.
goldFishshark is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online