Found myself in an odd spot not sure how to go about it, wether I made right choice or not :

20 ppl left in 1k man tournament. Gained a decent stack and sitting well above average with 35-40 BB. At this stage average is at 20 BB+-

Utg min raises, utg+1 with 13-14 BB shoves, I'm in utg+2 and have jj. Think for a moment, and disobey my instinct to flat or fold due to big stack two places to my left. Seven at table all together. Opposition is average, nothing I can't beat or have edge on. Top prizes at 150* buy in, money is in first three places.

What do I do here? How do I approach a correct thinking process? Not much text on this specific spot I could locate so your insights would be appreciated.

Spoiler, big stack snaps with QQ and we're out.

I guess when you say you disregarded flatting or folding you’re implying that you shoved? Early position with lots of action is probably a fold with a pair of jacks.


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Thanks, yes I shoved. Easy fold decision with such a string hand in this scenario? I guess flatting nearly half my stack is horrible that's why I opted the shove. My only concern is Mr big stack obviously, how do I plug in ICM consideration here if there are any? Or is it just a simple fold scenario and I should adopt it? It's the amount of BB I have that confuses me, if I were shorter easier shove, if I was a larger stack I can afford to call gold to reshove from a bigger stack here or is it a waste and opens me to being shoved on by weaker hands behind me as well?

Confused 😂

No I think when it involves half your stack, shove is better than calling. But folding is better than losing. Still 17 until the money, there’s no icm value.


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Thanks again and clarification on game status: we are deep in the money, 29 ppl left out of 1k, FT is next bubble , already in play to some extent based on all stacks in play. I had to Al table stack there , approx sixth place at this stage my

I see I thought you were saying 20 left and top 3 get paid. Then you can figure out icm if you know what each place paid, which definitely could change the correct move..........If you just call there and it folds back to the guy with qq and he jams, do you fold?


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I could find a fold if I had a read UTG or UTG1 were tight players otherwise ripping it looks ok to me but I don’t play around with ICM. If it’s a fold it must be the absolute top of our folding range .

Seems an interesting spot. Someone behind doesn’t often has QQ+

I'm not sure how much ICM is a factor here with 20 people left. I'm shoving here I think unless I had reads that one of the two players before me were super nits. Unlucky that the big stack wakes up with a hand behind us but kind of irrelevant to the situation.

Agreed on players before me, I wasn't worried about them, only the smaller stack had a range according to what I have been playing with him, and the initial raider was not much of a concern. The question in my mind is how I play this situation specifically with one large stack behind, my stack size which has an impact as its final table stack and my ability is higher than the field in general.

Does ICM even become applicable here? Are there any calculators for such scenarios?

That was my rapid process, as in how can I flat fold here. Then again, folding may be the more correct play. Court still out on this one :-).

I'm wondering also how the QQ behind snapped, considering the action before him I would have at least give it a second of thought, I guess in a 10 dollar tournament there is no question but it was 2/3 of his stack. Oh well

This is a good example of why it's best not to post results - its skewing your thinking and prob other peoples as well
Big stack behind is a consideration - but not a major one as they can only call 2-3% of the time - If you are confident that you are ahead of UTG+1 range then shove is fine - gets to be a tricky spot if we have 50BB
ICM not a big factor at this point

As already pointed out, no need to put spoilers.
Just an unlucky situation. I would play it the same way. It's unlikely that someone behind (with an even bigger stack) wakes up with a better hand, but it will happen sometimes. You're going to win a big pot here a majority of the time allowing you to make a deep(er) run.
I'm not sure I like flatting here with JJ because of the outside chance of some nutball overcalling with a weird-ass hand and out flopping us, I don't know maybe that's being results oriented, I could be convinced overwise though.
I think I flat w AA, KK and maybe AK?

Thanks, And didn't post spoiler to skew it or be results oriented at all, agreed.

Flatting for trapping agreed, not sure even AK I like there without a shove, flatting does allow many foolish things behind such as bugger stacks or similar putting me to test with weaker holdings, from my POV it's shove or fold then. I love the 2-3 percentage approach, is that confirmed stat? Always feels so much more in so many substantial spots for me in terms of potential upside that is.