10bb in a mtt. UTG + 2 with


1. a6s
2. a7s



If it matters, the ante in this tournament is 10 percent. Most tournaments i play have a 12.5% ante. Previously i jammed a8s+, a5s-a4s because i played according to the push fold chart.


But then i used floattheturn and snapshove and these charts suggest a much looser shove.


With a 10 percent ante


According to snapshove and floattheturn

a3s+ with a 10% ante



According to snapshove and floattheturn

a2s+ with a 12.5% ante



1. Do we basically treat a7s and a6s as the same since well both cannot make a wheel unlike a3s?


2. Does it matter which ante percentage we use such as 10 or 12.5 percent if we use floattheturn or snapshove?


3. Is a6s and a7s or either or a jam here or a fold?





10bb utg+1 in a tournament


1. KJo





10bb UTG


1. AJo
2. ATo

Well how many people are seated at the table? How many players left to act? What are the table dynamics? How tight are the blinds? How deep are the blinds? How many short stacks are there? Is icm a factor? What's your image?

Let say


1. 9 players
2. 8 players


1. When i say this, that would mean either 6 or 5 players left to act. Lets just say average table and everything is completely average. You have 10bb and the rest of the table could be around your stack up to 100bb. Let say this is not the final table. If its not the final table, does it even matter here if its 2 tables left or 5 tables left or in the middle of the tournament or beginning? Tag Image.



2. Now if this is a final table, the shoving range with 10bb there is a bit tighter than right?

Also speaking about how many players are at the table.


When you play on an 8 handed table like on party, should you be using the push/fold range for utg in a 8 player table as utg +1 and omit utg? Thus the 2nd player to act would be utg+2 and 3rd player to act would be lojack?

Thoughts on that?

Insta jam both if there are only 5 or 6 players left to act

Well yea thats obviously a jam with 5 players left.


But when its 9 handed or 8 handed, utg, are these very borderline where either of these is fine? Is KJo a jam with 10bb utg+1?


9 handed utg with 10bb. Is A10o a jam or it needs to be AJo? I always remembered that it was AJo yet both of these apps have ATo.

I am on a study binge about to hit the archives for some strassa etc. posts, and although this may seem a simple post/point, it was profound for me because I used to truly dislike when people would ask for all this info in threads discussing spots....glad to feel the opposite at this point.

Although generally I do agree OP - these spots have always seemed huge and hard to navigate. Taking into consideration all of the other available factors beyond position and hand, like simon asked of in his response, seems to be a better answer than a pushbot chart mentality.

Yeah. You should work back from the BB rather than forward from UTG.

It's all about how many players are left to act after you and it becomes more obvious if you think about applying that UTG range on a short handed table, eg 5 handed when you should be using the HJ range if first to act

Well yes if you are first to act on a table with 6 players, you should be using the jamming range of players in lojack as oppose to utg.


But those hands i posted, are those jams or not? A10o utg with 9 players, always remembered even back then its a fold and you need AJo to jam 10bb utg. But snapshove and floattheturn shows ATo with a 10 or 12.5 percent ante... And well both programs can't be incorrect right? I asked johnathan little on twitter a while back about the floatheturn app and he says its correct and snapshove... made some mistakes...

Why do you not open up a hrc or icmizer and do it yourself. Play around with ranges and see the results. You will learn a lot more this way than just asking for the answer without doing the work yourself.

So do not use snapshove or float the turn app anymore then?


I was mostly using the apps i mentioned because i thought they were the right programs to use...

It's absolutely fine to use them for this kind of stuff. You can additionally play around in hrc to see how tighter/looser villains are going to affect your ranges, but you don't really need to for those spots imo

Well lets just say the players are average. Thus do not adjust tighter or looser for villain.


So based on that, you say using those programs is better than snapshove or float the turn? I like snapshove and floattheturn app because you could enter it on your phone and check. But the issue is you have to keep go back and click on next one etc and its harder to memorize compared to say printing out pushfoldcharts.com since you can memorize it by looking at it. Its basically impossible to memorize what hands to jam with exactly or call all in with snapshove. Floattheturn is much easier because you put your position and stack and it tells you what to call with depending on if utg jams or utg plus 1 jams etc.


But hrc is the preferred for this? It is number 1 choice? Icmizer is 2nd? Then its one of the snapshove or floattheturn?

What I'm saying is, that for this kind of stuff you can rely on these apps if you want to and I wouldn't say it's that big of a deal.
You can use hrc or icmizer to tinker around with certain scenarios and get a better understanding for those spots.

Are you saying ignore


pushfoldcharts
snapshove
floattheturn



Also, in most mtt, its 12.5% ante as oppose 10%. I notice that the push/fold but especially calling all ins with 12.5% ante seems extremely loose to me.


Example 9 handed with 12.5% ante and 10bb, you can shove


33+
a7s+
a5s-a4s
ATo+
k9s
kqo
q9s
j9s
109s


A7s UTG with 10bb?



Now look at 10bb calling from the BB with 12.5% ante


You call with these hands in the BB to a utg 10bb shove

44+
a7s, a5s, a9o+
kts+, kqo
qjs+


Is that correct with calling with those suited aces or offsuit ace? That seems extremely loose. So if you have 15bb in the BB and UTG jams 10bb... this is a profitable call with a7s or a5s? A9o? You have got to be kidding me. How can A9o be a profitable call for 10bb in the bb to an utg shove of 10bb. Unless that players is a complete maniac, a9o looks like a clear fold to me?


Also K10s and QJs? So let say a player jams 10bb utg and you have k10s or qjs and have pretty much the same 10bb or 11bb. Or say 15bb. You are calling off pretty much your entire stack with k10s or qjs here to a 10bb jam from utg? I understand the call having some good equity here... but this does not look like a call to me. Can someone explain this part? The thing is when you use 12.5% ante on snapshove, these shoves but most importantly... these calling all ins seem extremely loose.

Okay i dont want to make this a long trend and will stop asking these things.But does anyone know if training sites like tournamentpokeredge or similar sites have charts for this? Thus a push/fold and calling chart up to 20bb depending on position? That way i wont ask more questions on this.


Because I want to know exactly what is the correct unexploitable shoving ranges in each position for up 15bb or so. But i dont mind 20bb. For example, I always thought 10bb utg, you need minimum AJo. But snapshove and pushfold shows A10o with both 10 and 12.5 percent ante. Can someone confirm here its AJo or A10o? I know its just those few hands but when i get those hands, i want to automatically know what i will do. I always followed pushfoldcharts but main issue is they dont show you what you can call with.


Its like when i get A7o in the lojack with 10bb. I always folded it because pushfoldcharts showed a9o+ for 10bb in lojack. Then i saw floattheturn has a8o with 10% ante... but a7o and a5o if 12.5% ante. So many times when i get these hands in these positions, im not sure what to do. Jam or fold. Thus i want to follow one specific chart and stick with it. Tips on this?



Also does 10% vs 12.5% antes matter? 12.5% antes when using the floattheturn and snapshove app, i find the shoves and calling all in extremely loose when you use 12.5% antes. But the main issue is most mtt online seem to use 12.5% antes and rarely 10%. Because then, i find the calling all ins with 12.5% ante just way way loose.


I mean when its something obvious like okay 15bb in lojack with 88. Okay thats a clear jam. But when its like KJo or say a9o... its very close such as i think you need a10o+ minimum. Im pretty certain KJo is a shove with 15bb in lojack. I know some of you might say thats a small mistake, but i want to play unexploitable with my shoves.

Upswing has a shove chart. You have a flawed thinking somewhat because those ranges are set to be used against someone calling correctly. So when someone is folding too much you should be expanding those ranges and the inverse of course when someone is calling too much you trim off the bottom part of the ranges. If you don't expect to get 3b much you can jam hands like AA instead of r/c them as well etc.