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I hate this spot I hate this spot

11-29-2018 , 09:47 PM
Hi guys, I am having trouble with this spot and want to solve it.

This is when you are on the bubble, like 1 or 2 players to ITM, and you have a short stack in SB or BTN.

I tend to push realy wide here in general, depending on V. Let's use the example of 10bb. So, chart says 73% on SB and 45% in BTN.

Far from the bubble I just don't adjust but on these kind of spots maybe I am pushing too much. I push in SB any Ax/Kx/Qx and PP, probably any two broadways and 76+ connectors. On BTN I cut the worst of those like from Q7s/Q9o

If I find the V realy nit maybe I go for more hands. If the V is a bigstack I try not to push de Q2/7 hands and maybe from 89 connectors. But the harder for me is another shortstack, if the guy isn't a nit I don't know what to do, because I need to get chips and I can't lose the oportunity but I feel unconfortable pushing hands like Q4s or 22 or J9s to these guys

Also, I made this adjustments but I really don't know how to analyze if they are correct, too loose or to tight.

And also, I lately playing some multi sngs where is full of crazy V whom would call fearless and push/ 3bpush wide when shortstacks. I find myself bleeding out blinds often. I need a theorical reference to solve this lol
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11-30-2018 , 06:48 AM
Quote:
So, chart says 73% on SB and 45% in BTN.
What kind of chart do you refer to?
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11-30-2018 , 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffsh
What kind of chart do you refer to?
Jonathan little's push/fold charts

Enviado desde mi XT1032 mediante Tapatalk
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11-30-2018 , 09:29 AM
Charts are based on Nash equilibrium ... Your villains doesnt call that wide , then u had to push tighter
Try using JL charts with the option +20-30 tighter as default for micro stakes
This is my lazy advice , if u want more in depth i recommend buying icmizer and work hard there
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11-30-2018 , 10:56 AM
I thought it wasn't like that, I tought it was like, if they call tighter then you can add some more hands that are profitable because of FE
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11-30-2018 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tucanroman
I thought it wasn't like that, I tought it was like, if they call tighter then you can add some more hands that are profitable because of FE
You are correct. The problem at the micro stakes is people call wider than they should, which means you have to shove tighter.
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11-30-2018 , 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
You are correct. The problem at the micro stakes is people call wider than they should, which means you have to shove tighter.
Well that is not right , i'm sorry but that's not how equilibrium works. If they call wider u had to push wider and if they call tighter u had to push tighter.
In the past i tought like you too , but after read Tipton book ( expert HU NLHE) i understand this concept full in depth
Villains in micro stakes doesnt call perfect Nash, when was the last time u saw someone calling a 60% range with a 45% for example?? ( Check equilab and see what hands u need to call for being unexploitable)
Check icmizer with chip EV and you will see , insert a calling range of micro stakes ( something like PP A5s+ A7o+ KTs+ KJo+ and good SC) and check Nash there. Then wider the calling range and check again

A good exploit for micro stakes it's not push low Ax with shallow stacks , instead push suited hands , 1 gapper or two and good offsuit broadways

PD: sry for my grammar ( it's good?) , I'm not an English person and idont know why Grammarly doesnt work in this phone

Cheers
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11-30-2018 , 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pouled
Well that is not right , i'm sorry but that's not how equilibrium works. If they call wider u had to push wider and if they call tighter u had to push tighter.
In the past i tought like you too , but after read Tipton book ( expert HU NLHE) i understand this concept full in depth
Villains in micro stakes doesnt call perfect Nash, when was the last time u saw someone calling a 60% range with a 45% for example?? ( Check equilab and see what hands u need to call for being unexploitable)
Check icmizer with chip EV and you will see , insert a calling range of micro stakes ( something like PP A5s+ A7o+ KTs+ KJo+ and good SC) and check Nash there. Then wider the calling range and check again

A good exploit for micro stakes it's not push low Ax with shallow stacks , instead push suited hands , 1 gapper or two and good offsuit broadways

PD: sry for my grammar ( it's good?) , I'm not an English person and idont know why Grammarly doesnt work in this phone

Cheers
I don't know that book but you have things backwards. Let's take a simple example: you're in the SB as a shortstack and you know the BB will only call your shove if he has AA. Are you going to tighten up your shoving range to premium hands? Or widen your range and shove frequently?
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11-30-2018 , 04:07 PM
OK
In your example the answer is shove ATC but that's an xploit. I repeat check icmizer if u have it and i recommend you Tipton book ( i know u are a good player trying to improve just like me). It's not an easy read but it's worth it.

Edit: first answer was too aggresive

I'm out of this thread

Last edited by Pouled; 11-30-2018 at 04:32 PM.
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11-30-2018 , 07:56 PM
Can you solve this please? lol

I know in micros they call wide but, is not realy that wide. The calls almost always are Ax, K9o+ little times JQ and PP from 66. In general, also there are more wide calleres and really tight ones.

Sometimes I get surprises but with that kind of calling ranges pushing Ax, Kx, Qx, broadways, all PP and some high conectors can't be ca mistake because of FE

Anyway, my question was more about if it is a valid move due to ICM in these kind of bubble spots. I mean: The value of winning the mini price vs the value of taking those kind of flips being last or almost last.

Or to be more clear, is my adjust correct vs the chip ev 76% pushing range? too tight? too wide?

If you are last on a bubble to ITM, you are on SB with 10bb and BB has 10bb also, would you push Q5s? 22? K3o? I am doing it but maybe is a mistake. I would do it always far from bubbles
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11-30-2018 , 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pouled
OK
In your example the answer is shove ATC but that's an xploit. I repeat check icmizer if u have it and i recommend you Tipton book ( i know u are a good player trying to improve just like me). It's not an easy read but it's worth it.

Edit: first answer was too aggresive

I'm out of this thread
Of course it's an exploit, that's the point. The charts are based on opponents calling according to Nash, so if they call tighter or wider than Nash you have to adjust to exploit that tendency.
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11-30-2018 , 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tucanroman
Can you solve this please? lol

I know in micros they call wide but, is not realy that wide. The calls almost always are Ax, K9o+ little times JQ and PP from 66. In general, also there are more wide calleres and really tight ones.

Sometimes I get surprises but with that kind of calling ranges pushing Ax, Kx, Qx, broadways, all PP and some high conectors can't be ca mistake because of FE

Anyway, my question was more about if it is a valid move due to ICM in these kind of bubble spots. I mean: The value of winning the mini price vs the value of taking those kind of flips being last or almost last.

Or to be more clear, is my adjust correct vs the chip ev 76% pushing range? too tight? too wide?

If you are last on a bubble to ITM, you are on SB with 10bb and BB has 10bb also, would you push Q5s? 22? K3o? I am doing it but maybe is a mistake. I would do it always far from bubbles
The simple answer to your question is you use the charts (or an app based on the charts) but you adjust tighter when on the bubble.
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11-30-2018 , 09:19 PM
but what means tighter here? If I know V will call with any Ax and any Kx, I need to push like the better ones, like from A8o to KTo? or just forget about the crappy ones like J7, gappers and Q8o and low?

Because chart says I have to push almost everything
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11-30-2018 , 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tucanroman
but what means tighter here? If I know V will call with any Ax and any Kx, I need to push like the better ones, like from A8o to KTo? or just forget about the crappy ones like J7, gappers and Q8o and low?

Because chart says I have to push almost everything
That's why I like the FTT app, you can just set the auto-adjustment to 20% or 30% tighter and it will show you the adjusted ranges.
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12-01-2018 , 07:36 AM
OP, I think that the most valuable lesson that you can extract from this thread is in that you shouldn't use static charts for bubble/icm situations. Use professional software like ICMizer - you can try it for free! You can check on your own what happens with the pushing ranges when opponents call wider or tighter. Question everything, don't trust anyone.
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12-01-2018 , 08:14 AM
OP is asking if he should narrow his range in bubble situations, I dont know why people in this thread misses that.

To answer your question, I always narrow my range in bubble situation. Unless V is nit, then whatever, fire it away. Because hes calling range will definitely drop below 10% and thats too good opportunity to pass compared to min cash.
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