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How to range an opponent? How to range an opponent?

01-17-2021 , 04:03 PM
Despite trying to be a thinking poker player and being acutely aware of my opponents - VPIP, position, betting patterns etc - I'm clueless when it comes to ranging villains so I'm stuck at that lowest 'my hand' line of thinking.

I know common equity situations, and how to calculate odds to the perceived winning hand - pot odds - but I'm confused about hand ranging opponents and would like some help, please.

YouTube has plenty of videos that not only get confusing fast but also use programs like Equilab - which I can't use in game so how do you assign a range? I mean, obviously nits will have a very tight opening range but against less tight players?

And especially on the flop?

You have A 10, raise pf, get called.
Flop comes 10 5 7 rainbow. Whether I bet and villain calls or vice versa, I've no idea if I'm way ahead or way behind.

Obviously I can assign him all the pocket pairs and any hand that has a piece of the flop such as 10J, 10Q, A5, A7, K7, 67, 78, 79 but villain could also have missed with overcards such as JQ and JK. As I don't know how to range, I don't know what my equity is and so even if I win the hand and make it all the way to the final table I don't know whether it's correct to call or fold.

I also know that check-calling or pushing all-in on a two-to-the-flush board is a strong sign of a flush draw and that pushing all-in pf usually means AJ/AQ/AK but beyond that it's pot luck.

I'm wanting to be think about my opponent's hand and make correct decisions and I know sometimes, like with KK on an A high board, it's less maths and more 'I can't drop this hand' but I am massively aware of a shortfall in my thought process and whilst it feels good to call an all-in on the river, on an ace-paired board, and catch your opponents bluff (using the thinking that 2 aces means it's unlikely he ha one) it's also frustrating when I bust to trips or 2 pair or whatever.

Thing is, whether I win or lose, I couldn't range him or calculate my equity in play. I could only think 'he could have pushed all-in to scare me off' or 'he could be check-calling because he has a mid-pair'. So whatever my hand is - be it ace-high with KA, a pocket pair, or top pair - I don't know if my calls/folds are right or not. Whilst I could rationale I must be okay as I often run deep, there's no maths behind it like there is when I'm judging pot odds.
How to range an opponent? Quote
01-17-2021 , 04:34 PM
I am working on this too, so I'm no expert, but here's how I handle this...

It's most important on the flop to know how your opponent's range looks on a certain board. You have to play around with different tools to get a feel for this. I use Poker Cruncher.

Some rules of thumb...

-If a person is calling from the blinds, the raggedy boards (347, 256, 338, etc.) are better for him.
-If he calls from in position (like if he's on the button and you raised from MP), your ranges will be closer but he'll tend to have a lot of the middle cards (Q-9), pairs 22-TT and suited connectors. Boards like JT7, QJ9, 985 will be good for him.
-If he raises from EP, his range will be a lot tighter and have a lot more big pairs and big A hands (AK, AQ).
-When it's a 3-bet pot, the ranges are going to be pretty close, and the main advantage the 3-bettor has is that he's got AA-QQ and the caller doesn't.

So all of that will help you know whether to bet or how much to bet on the flop, but if villain puts in money on the flop (with a call, a bet or a raise), a lot of his range is eliminated when the turn comes.

Now you've just got to base his range off the board, more than what he did preflop. Look at the hands that make a pair or decent draw and proceed accordingly.

There's a lot more obviously to think about, but I hope this helps you through the situations you'll face the most.
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01-23-2021 , 02:35 PM
Thanks for the response - I'm guessing from the lack of input that people either don't know ho to range, either, or they don't want to share.

I understand your point - the problem I have is that it's too simplistic and assumes a very ABC TAG villain. I mean, just because the SB calls doesn't mean he's got rags, he could have 55, K10 or Ax and all of these can out flop you.
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01-23-2021 , 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissVix
Thanks for the response - I'm guessing from the lack of input that people either don't know ho to range, either, or they don't want to share.

I understand your point - the problem I have is that it's too simplistic and assumes a very ABC TAG villain. I mean, just because the SB calls doesn't mean he's got rags, he could have 55, K10 or Ax and all of these can out flop you.
Obviously you rarely can put anyone on a narrow range. All you can do is look at broad strokes to know which flops generally favor which ranges and go from there.
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01-23-2021 , 04:56 PM
But you're not telling me anything I haven't read in a beginner's guide. 4 bet = QQ+, raises in EP = strong etc. There's clearly more to it than such broad strokes and that's what I'm asking for - if you don't know that's fine but don't tell me the basics that I already stated in my OP.
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01-23-2021 , 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissVix
But you're not telling me anything I haven't read in a beginner's guide. 4 bet = QQ+, raises in EP = strong etc. There's clearly more to it than such broad strokes and that's what I'm asking for - if you don't know that's fine but don't tell me the basics that I already stated in my OP.
So are you asking about combo counting when it comes to using math to get probabilities of various types of hands in your opponent's range?
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01-23-2021 , 10:08 PM
You should buy a sub to a training site imo. It would vastly help you initially and also they provide a various amount of ranges including RFI and vs RFI (raise first in). So you'll have approx what to open from every position and approx what villain should be calling with.
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01-25-2021 , 10:54 PM
ABC villains have a range. Other villains may have different ranges, but you have no information on that except from watching them for a few hands. If they are really out of line it may become visible fast.

As for your AT example, you are surely quite obviously ahead except in a scenario where people only call your raise with monsters? If people 3-bet TT and up, you are actually certain of it. I don't know how you could have picked this example unless you are complaining about how the inventors of poker made a bad decision when they said that everyone's hand should not be played face up.
How to range an opponent? Quote
01-26-2021 , 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher2323
So are you asking about combo counting when it comes to using math to get probabilities of various types of hands in your opponent's range?
I think this is what I am trying to say. I'm fine with counting outs when I need to improve but only just realised that pros count card combos in their opponent's likely range based on action in the hand (which is why they often take a long time to make a decision) before deciding if they're likely ahead and if not, whether they should call a bet.

The example I posted was to illustrate that horrible feeling when you don't know where you are in the hand. There's no ace on the flop or draw yet villain i active. If they bet first is it just a c-bet or have they hit? If they call are they floating or have they got 2 pair? If they raise are they bluffing, horribly outgunned with bottom pair, or trying to scare you off with KA?


Quote:
Originally Posted by killer_kill
You should buy a sub to a training site imo. It would vastly help you initially and also they provide a various amount of ranges including RFI and vs RFI (raise first in). So you'll have approx what to open from every position and approx what villain should be calling with.
I'm not familiar with the term RFI but I've read enough magazine tutorials and books to know the typical types of hands to raise pf with and from which positions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gerryq
As for your AT example, you are surely quite obviously ahead except in a scenario where people only call your raise with monsters? If people 3-bet TT and up, you are actually certain of it. I don't know how you could have picked this example unless you are complaining about how the inventors of poker made a bad decision when they said that everyone's hand should not be played face up.
See my above explanation as to that example. Also, not everyone is TAG - you see all kinds of madness at small stakes and I'm not just talking about LAG maniacs. AJ and AQ are massively overrated and it's standard to see villains call all-ins with them as though they're holding AA. And I'm sure you've fired 3 barrels many times only to breath a sigh of relief when villain flips over bottom pair as well as raised 3xbb with AA and lost to villain who made a perfectly fair call with J9 and hit 2 pair to stack you.

But even if villain was TAG, there can still be a host of hands that beat you in the example I posted: sets, pocket jacks, 2 pair with suited connectors - which is why my post is all about putting villain on ranges and working out your equity from there rather than blindly thinking 'I've top pair, top kicker so I'm taking this all the way.

Last edited by MissVix; 01-26-2021 at 07:42 PM.
How to range an opponent? Quote
01-26-2021 , 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissVix
I think this is what I am trying to say. I'm fine with counting outs when I need to improve but only just realised that pros count card combos in their opponent's likely range based on action in the hand (which is why they often take a long time to make a decision) before deciding if they're likely ahead and if not, whether they should call a bet.

The example I posted was to illustrate that horrible feeling when you don't know where you are in the hand. There's no ace on the flop or draw yet villain i active. If they bet first is it just a c-bet or have they hit? If they call are they floating or have they got 2 pair? If they raise are they bluffing, horribly outgunned with bottom pair, or trying to scare you off with KA?
This is really hard to do in real time. I certainly can't do it.

But there are some shortcuts to push you in the right direction.

Say there's a board of AT8 and you're sitting there with AK and facing a big bet.

If you know there are 3 combos of TT, 3 combos of 88, 1 combo of AA and 8 combos apiece of AQ and AJ, that can help with your decision.

If you think your opponent would play T8s and not T8o, then you can drastically reduce the number of two-pair combos.

If that board is AsTs8h, there are way less flush draws out there than if the board is AhTs8s, because people play so suited aces so much more than other suited hands. The same logic applies if you have the As in your hand and the board is AhTs8s.

If you have AK on a AJT board, the number of KQ hands goes down from 16 to 12 because of the K in your hand.

You still can't really use this to create a perfect math problem in real time, the way you would when counting your outs and figuring odds, but it can help.
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