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Small Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of small stakes MTT strategy

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Old 09-13-2020, 11:37 AM   #1
mhong64
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How does average stack affect shoving ranges?

How do you adjust to short stack tournaments vs. deep stack? I notice a lot of conventional wisdom says start jamming when you are at a 15-20bb stack, but a lot of tournaments I play have average stacks around 20-30bb sometimes.

To me, open shoving 20bb feels a bit like ICM suicide when you are still edging out 1/3 of the field. For example, snapshove says with antes, full handed, you can shove UTG+2 with 20bb with 55+, A9s+ (and A5s), K9s+, Q9s+, J10s+, T9s+, AJo+, KQo+ and this feels a bit wide for short stack tournaments- I rarely see people open shoving for 20bb, and when they do it's always JJ+, AQ+, KQs+ if that.

That being said, if the average stack were something like 50-100bb deep, this initial range makes a lot more sense.

How do you adjust ICM and shove ranges with short stack tournaments? I never see much on this concept, just ICM and ranges in general but I feel like the play is so different when the tournament is short.
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Old 09-21-2020, 07:18 AM   #2
insomnia666
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Re: How does average stack affect shoving ranges?

Everyone sees this different. I like to raise, even with very short stack. Depends on the hand, on the players. But I often do that. I want to have "an options". Shove is "fire and forget". Can be good ofc. For some people. For the volume , you know. I even saw one guy, reg with 400k profit, he use to raise-fold even with 7bb stack. And the people are laughing at me, when I do that with 9bb.

You know, the main argument is "because shove is profitable". In theory profitable. But what about raise-call, raise-fold!? "Not profitable". Yeah, sure. I even saw one time, a MTT pro, he limp with JTs form MP with 12bb stack. $500 tournament. Many ways to play with short stack. Not only "shove". Find your "way". You can use a software. HRC, very good one. You cann use "the adjustments" . You can set your own range, real range for the V. And you will see the truth. For this "profitable shove". The ugly truth .

In reality your still will use hands for raise-call, raise -fold. Let's say, you are with 20bb, behind you 25bb, 17bb, 50b,, 8bb, 12bb. What is the best range here then!? Or what if your stack is 24bb, what then!? This push-fold charts are so silly. Use some good soft. Like HRC...Take your time. Even for one spot. To learn something valuable.

For the ICM...If you learn like that, HRC, deep analysis, you will see which hand is good, why and which hand is not good enough. An why...Equity, profit. If you use for analysis some spots with "heavy" ICM, again, you will see which hands are good and which not. And why...How the ICM matters. This is like "an intuition". You play in some tournament, you find a similar spot, you use your knowledge. And also you know about the playability of some hands, you use the HUD as well. Fold pre, 3bet pre, fold postflop...Obv I can't explain. But this "snapshove", I even don't know what is this. Maybe some "adviser" for push-fold. Useless most likely. Only for 6-7 blinds "effective stack". I don't know, can be wrong about this soft.

Last edited by insomnia666; 09-21-2020 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:56 AM   #3
whitedragon67
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Re: How does average stack affect shoving ranges?

15-25bb works best for rejaming over someones open raise

it also works well to play open raise/f/c yourself and even play postflop
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:57 AM   #4
whitedragon67
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Re: How does average stack affect shoving ranges?

of course there are some spots where it makes the most sense to open shove with that stack size. but generally i would start open shoving with less that 12 bbs
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