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 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw  5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw

09-11-2018 , 04:59 AM
Only 6 hands on villain but did see him c/call flop and turn and then bluff at river when OOP with just a gutshot straight draw and he also flatted a sb 7x 3bet when he was on the button w/KTs and jammed with 2 overs on the flop.

Trying to determine what the most optimal play is on the turn with this draw given that we are still pretty deep at this point. Donk lead vs c/call vs c/raise vs c/jam.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 50/100 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 8,387 (VPIP: 20.34, PFR: 10.17, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 60)
SB: 17,049 (VPIP: 23.46, PFR: 18.52, 3Bet Preflop: 9.38, Hands: 82)
Hero (BB): 9,405
UTG: 10,142 (VPIP: 32.76, PFR: 25.86, 3Bet Preflop: 11.54, Hands: 58)
UTG+1: 8,934 (VPIP: 34.48, PFR: 22.41, 3Bet Preflop: 17.24, Hands: 58)
MP: 11,737 (VPIP: 18.97, PFR: 15.52, 3Bet Preflop: 15.38, Hands: 58)
CO: 16,204 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

7 players post ante of 10, SB posts SB 50, Hero posts BB 100

Pre Flop: (pot: 220) Hero has 7 9

fold, fold, fold, CO raises to 220, fold, fold, Hero calls 120

Flop: (560, 2 players) 8 A T

Hero checks, CO bets 500,Hero ...
 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw Quote
09-11-2018 , 06:36 AM
Why r u asking about the turn decision when it's on flop now? Depends so much what card the turn brings.

Standard would obv be c/r otf. However this villain does not seem to like folding. So I guess i'm c/c flop vs this guy and c/r only for value vs him. Also c/c turn unimproved and c/r if u do improve. If villain checks back turn when u have it donkbet the river. But don't try to bluff this guy otr!!
 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw Quote
09-11-2018 , 08:17 AM
You should be looking to build a SIZABLE pot this early in the tournament with a very strong combo draw and a villain who might very possibly like to get down and dirty. I like a x/r on flop to 1.5k and then a lead of about 2.2k on turns that complete our str8 or flush and sprinkle in a few small ball cards that you continue semi bluffing on. Checking any non club broadway feels fine. And then figure out ur river situation - obviously jamming when our str8 or flush complete, jamming river on some good runouts for our bb range when we x/r flop and continue on turn. If turn is a bad brick for us x/c turn and try to improve (for a reasonable price of course) and if u improve on river then ur decision is between leading for value or checking to induce worse which maybe vs this opponent the latter is the better option.
 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw Quote
09-11-2018 , 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by underdeveloped
You should be looking to build a SIZABLE pot this early in the tournament with a very strong combo draw and a villain who might very possibly like to get down and dirty. I like a x/r on flop to 1.5k and then a lead of about 2.2k on turns that complete our str8 or flush and sprinkle in a few small ball cards that you continue semi bluffing on. Checking any non club broadway feels fine. And then figure out ur river situation - obviously jamming when our str8 or flush complete, jamming river on some good runouts for our bb range when we x/r flop and continue on turn. If turn is a bad brick for us x/c turn and try to improve (for a reasonable price of course) and if u improve on river then ur decision is between leading for value or checking to induce worse which maybe vs this opponent the latter is the better option.
I second this.
 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw Quote
09-12-2018 , 05:09 AM
3-bet pre.
 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw Quote
09-12-2018 , 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cizixap
3-bet pre.
reread description of villain
 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw Quote
09-13-2018 , 08:23 PM
even with villian description this hand just plays better as a 3b. i would go 75% 3b and 25% flat.

vs a not so good player i don't mind raising this bet on flop but as an overall strategy in position with a range disadvantage on an A high board i think we should be calling our big draws and also our monsters holdings. this is a hand you can call 2 streets with then if V checks river we can blast off like we have AT/88/TT (because that is how we should normally be playing these hands too IP when we dont 3b pre).

now if we were IP and the board was Tc 8s 5c we can look to raise as our default strategy since this board is more in our range AND is likely to change a lot by the turn/river. if we have 55/88 on the above hypothetical board, or even the T8s we choose to flat pre, we should be raising these now for value so when a scare card inevitably comes off and villian decides to fold their JJ we don't miss out on our big value.
 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw Quote
09-13-2018 , 08:29 PM
oh and as for turn strategy, which was actually your only question, well that is going to depend on the turn card. if you want to throw out some hypothetical turns we can talk about what to do, but there are too many scenarios to just start listing them off.
 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw Quote
09-14-2018 , 07:25 AM
No point to 3b vs described v as we give him a chance to move us off with a 4b with these specific dynamics preflop co vs bb. He proly knows people are taking notice of his plays and could get ready to start adjusting.

Flop plays itself we are never folding so xr/b/b on pretty much all run outs
 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw Quote
09-14-2018 , 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wowsooooted
No point to 3b vs described v as we give him a chance to move us off with a 4b with these specific dynamics preflop co vs bb. He proly knows people are taking notice of his plays and could get ready to start adjusting.

Flop plays itself we are never folding so xr/b/b on pretty much all run outs
v has yet to 3b or 4b so why would we give him credit for making this play? do people who x/c, x/c, lead big with a gutshot really think meta enough to go "oh btn saw me showdown that gutshot and knows im messing about i better throw in a 4b". i think people are over thinking the preflop action. if we get moved off 97s is that really the end of the world? post flop we get to represent high dry boards and hit the middling boards but doesnt connect as well as say 98s so it benefits with the preflop aggression. as a default strategy this hand should be 3b pre and until v shows us that he can 4b bluff i think we should be sticking with that play.
 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw Quote
09-14-2018 , 08:02 AM
as a side note. people who play the x/c, x/c, lead with gutshot OOP clearly do not think about their opponents range very much if at all
 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw Quote
09-14-2018 , 09:15 AM
Preflop doesn't warrant the attention it's been given. It's a good flat, it's a good 3bet.

I prefer a flat vs the flop sizing. He likely likes his hand. He is likely scared of the draws. All very well planning to raise, barrel, barrel but that assumes he won't 3bet flop. I'm not at all confident in that.
 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw Quote
09-14-2018 , 09:28 AM
Also if you raise flop and are fortunate enough to get flatted, you will have put yourself in an SPR situation on the turn where any traditional sized barrel offers vill an enticing jam with his entire continuance range.

You want to do the jamming with your draw not get jammed on.
 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw Quote
09-14-2018 , 11:58 AM
any description of V that is based on 6 hands is not reliable AT ALL. 3- bet pre is a good decision because it is trying to realize FE and also leaves us with playable hand postflop.
 5K GTD - Flop decision with combo draw Quote

      
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