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Flopped flushdraw IP in 3-bet pot live LSMTT; sizing? Flopped flushdraw IP in 3-bet pot live LSMTT; sizing?

07-09-2018 , 06:58 PM
Hey guys!

Just busted a lowstakes live MTT and was wondering if you can give me some advice.

Some info about the tourney:
- It's a live MTT in Prague
- Buyin: 700CZK (±25 EUR) unlimited re-entry, 200k CZK (±7.5k EUR / 300 entries) gtd.
- Starting stack: 40k
- Levels: 15 min. The re-entry period is 12 levels (2k/4k, BB ante).
- Never played here before.

I busted my first bullet a while after this hand in 300/600:
UTG+1 opens to 2k, UTG+2 3-bets to 6k (stack around 30k, no info, just sat down), I 4-bet KK in LP to 13.5k and UTG+2 calls. Flop: J22. He checks, I bet 10k, he jams, I call and he turns over 42.

After busting I re-enter and sit down at a new table. Blinds are now 600/1200 and the second hand I get J7 in the SB and complete after 3 limpers. Flop: J72 and I checkraise an LP (3.5k) bet to 12k with 25k behind. He calls, and I jam on an A turn. He calls with A9 and I hold. A few hands later he ships his last 5bb and gets two MP callers - 86 and 95.

I guess there are around 100 players in the room, the clock says there are 160 entries and the last two levels there have been constantly at least 5 players at the re-entry desk.

Now the hand that I like to hear some advice on, especially (post-flop) sizing:

Blinds 700/1400
UTG+2 opens to 3.7k, UTG+3 flats. I 3-bet A5 in MP to 12k (stack 75k), and only UTG+3 calls (stack also 75k).

I have no info on Villain, but generalising the style of play I've seen so far, peoples preflop ranges can be pretty wide. Of course this doesn't say anything about Villain, but I thought it was an okay 3-bet spot.

Flop: 1086.

What sizing is best, and more importantly, why?

Will tell the rest of the hand later, but I'm wondering what you guys think is the best play here.
Flopped flushdraw IP in 3-bet pot live LSMTT; sizing? Quote
07-10-2018 , 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duritan1
Hey guys!

Just busted a lowstakes live MTT and was wondering if you can give me some advice.

Some info about the tourney:
- It's a live MTT in Prague
- Buyin: 700CZK (±25 EUR) unlimited re-entry, 200k CZK (±7.5k EUR / 300 entries) gtd.
- Starting stack: 40k
- Levels: 15 min. The re-entry period is 12 levels (2k/4k, BB ante).
- Never played here before.

I busted my first bullet a while after this hand in 300/600:
UTG+1 opens to 2k, UTG+2 3-bets to 6k (stack around 30k, no info, just sat down), I 4-bet KK in LP to 13.5k and UTG+2 calls. Flop: J22. He checks, I bet 10k, he jams, I call and he turns over 42.

After busting I re-enter and sit down at a new table. Blinds are now 600/1200 and the second hand I get J7 in the SB and complete after 3 limpers. Flop: J72 and I checkraise an LP (3.5k) bet to 12k with 25k behind. He calls, and I jam on an A turn. He calls with A9 and I hold. A few hands later he ships his last 5bb and gets two MP callers - 86 and 95.

I guess there are around 100 players in the room, the clock says there are 160 entries and the last two levels there have been constantly at least 5 players at the re-entry desk.

Now the hand that I like to hear some advice on, especially (post-flop) sizing:

Blinds 700/1400
UTG+2 opens to 3.7k, UTG+3 flats. I 3-bet A5 in MP to 12k (stack 75k), and only UTG+3 calls (stack also 75k).

I have no info on Villain, but generalising the style of play I've seen so far, peoples preflop ranges can be pretty wide. Of course this doesn't say anything about Villain, but I thought it was an okay 3-bet spot.

Flop: 1086.

What sizing is best, and more importantly, why?

Will tell the rest of the hand later, but I'm wondering what you guys think is the best play here.
I would just call pre-flop A5s and bet ~60% of the pot OTF.

BTW : which casino in Prague hosts this tournament? Plan to visit it next year, definitely would like to play some donkaments like you described :-0
Flopped flushdraw IP in 3-bet pot live LSMTT; sizing? Quote
07-10-2018 , 02:42 PM
what's the reason we're 3 betting pre for? Also, did villain check to you OTF? If they checked the flop we have options to check back or bet, but it's hard to know how much to bet if we don't know if villain had bet.
Flopped flushdraw IP in 3-bet pot live LSMTT; sizing? Quote
07-10-2018 , 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cizixap

BTW : which casino in Prague hosts this tournament? Plan to visit it next year, definitely would like to play some donkaments like you described :-0
There are multiple casino's that offer poker in Prague, this tourney was at Rebuy Stars (rebuystars.cz), they have two casino's in Prague, one in the middle of the old town and the one where I was was (Luka) at the edge of the city but easily accessible (metro goes directly from the city centre).

The one in the centre had a 500 CZK buyin with 100k CZK gtd the day before which had only 119 entries, so nice overlay there. Don't know if it's always like that though.
Flopped flushdraw IP in 3-bet pot live LSMTT; sizing? Quote
07-10-2018 , 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onehandatatime
what's the reason we're 3 betting pre for? Also, did villain check to you OTF? If they checked the flop we have options to check back or bet, but it's hard to know how much to bet if we don't know if villain had bet.
I 3-bet preflop to isolate and play the pot IP as aggressor postflop if called, or take down the pot pre.

Villain did check to me OTF, and checking back was indeed also an option. The potsize OTF was around 31.5k, with both of us around 63k behind.

I think both checking and betting can't be bad, but I would love to hear what's the better option, and what sizing to choose here and why.
Flopped flushdraw IP in 3-bet pot live LSMTT; sizing? Quote
07-10-2018 , 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cizixap
I would just call pre-flop A5s and bet ~60% of the pot OTF.
What's the reason behind a 60% bet? Why is it in your opinion better than, say, anywhere from 25-50%?

Last edited by Duritan1; 07-10-2018 at 04:11 PM.
Flopped flushdraw IP in 3-bet pot live LSMTT; sizing? Quote
07-11-2018 , 06:43 AM
I think I'd just check this flop since we don't likely have 88/66/97s and more weighted to AK type hands and overpairs that we may want to sometimes check for balance. We also don't have many tens and don't wanna prob play for stacks if we get raised and a lot of turns are ok for you.
Flopped flushdraw IP in 3-bet pot live LSMTT; sizing? Quote
07-12-2018 , 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by killer_kill
I think I'd just check this flop since we don't likely have 88/66/97s and more weighted to AK type hands and overpairs that we may want to sometimes check for balance. We also don't have many tens and don't wanna prob play for stacks if we get raised and a lot of turns are ok for you.
Thanks for your thoughts, I should've thought better about checking back.

Anyway, I bet 17k into 31.5k on the flop, and he jams for 63k total.

If I have to think of his jamming range it would probably look something like this: 66/88/TT+, KQs, KJs, QJs, occassional J9s/87s/ATo, which I have ~42% against if I'm correct, and I have to call 45k for a pot of 111k, giving me around 2.4 to 1, so I need at least 29.4%.

Is any of my thinking wrong here?
Flopped flushdraw IP in 3-bet pot live LSMTT; sizing? Quote
07-12-2018 , 05:49 PM
Villain prob doesn't flat KJs or QJs to that 3b size tho as well. I'd bet less on the flop as well prob. They don't have J9 or many 9x hands, the draws they do have are worse than us or gutshots and we don't have to commit to calling off when he jams (seems bad to b/f this much equity with overcard and nfd).
Flopped flushdraw IP in 3-bet pot live LSMTT; sizing? Quote
07-15-2018 , 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duritan1
What's the reason behind a 60% bet? Why is it in your opinion better than, say, anywhere from 25-50%?
disclaimer : what follows is a quick and dirty napkin math behind the suggested bet..the actual calculation is much more difficult.. check this math, use it on your own risk..or better don't use it all, i am just trying to answer your question in details because you answered in details about Prague casinos

you have nuts fd OTF. let's say that the only way that you can win this hand is completing the flush. It makes sense because your ace is weak and even if you hit top pair it still can lose to better kicker. like A7.
It means that the equity of your hand OTF is roughly 33% - 9 outs, 2 streets, cut off a little bit because sometimes even the completed flush loses.
if you check OTF and the turn card is not spades then your equity is reduced to ~18% you don't want to let it happen, right.
therefore, you do want to realize your equity right now, so you bet. You can bet 1/2 of the pot. The pot odds in this case are 2:1 or 33% = exactly your equity.

But it's not the completed picture, V might fold in response to your bet. How often he folds depends on a lot of things - his range, flop board, his stat. E.g. you might want to check his "fold to c-bet" stat in HUD. On average though he hits the flop ~40% of times and it means that the rest 60% he misses and might fold..However it's too honest if he folds every time if he misses..let's say that he calls 50% of times and folds 50% of times...
so
your fold equity is 50%
your hand equity is 33%

Your actual equity seats somewhere in between. let's say it's 40%. you bet OTF 2/3 of the pot to realize this equity.

also, you might want to bet 3/4 of the pot. in that case you need ~43% equity.

Last edited by cizixap; 07-15-2018 at 08:30 AM.
Flopped flushdraw IP in 3-bet pot live LSMTT; sizing? Quote

      
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