PokerStars Hold'em No Limit - 40/80 (10 ante) - 6 players
Replay

UTG: 3,230 (40 bb) (Unknown)
MP: 2,652 (33 bb)
CO (Hero): 2,231 (28 bb)
BU: 2,370 (30 bb)
SB: 2,228 (28 bb)
BB: 789 (10 bb)

Pre-Flop: (180) Hero is CO with K♣ J♦
UTG raises to 160, 1 fold, Hero calls 160, 3 players fold

Flop: (500) K♦ 8♥ 9♥ (2 players)
UTG bets 240, Hero calls 240

Turn: (980) 2♦ (2 players)
UTG bets 640, Hero calls 640

River: (2,260) J♣ (2 players)
UTG bets 2,180 (all-in), Hero calls 1,181 (all-in)

Hi guys,
Rewatching one of my sessions I came across this hand that I feel like I played very poorly. I decided to post because it's a spot were I can loose a lot of money if not played correctly.

Can KJo be on our flat range? Should we just 3bet/fold pre? Or just fold vs unknown?

Will post what he had later.

Think you'll find {KJo} does terribly vs a likely tight UTG open range. Add in you not even being close to closing the action, bad flat.

River's gotta be a call beating {AA, AK, KQ, bluffs} and of course blocking {KK}

And I don't think you lose anything by never VPIPing here after UTG opens, I'd rather have like {86s} if I'm 3betting an UTG open light (and {KJo} is a decidedly light 3bet vs UTG open)

Did you feel nervous when you saw the Kxx flop? If yes then go ahead and never cold call when you can't even flop top pair and face bets in peace.

Note the difference from 76s on 7xx (not that I think that is a good flat here because I don't). It's gonna be unfortunate when you get blasted off but you're not apprehensive, if he keeps betting it's a trivial let go v most esp since overcards will likely peel.

let's say that we flat and BB shoves and UTG folds. do we call?

Of course he can have a better K than I have, but I wasn't nervous about that board. It was as good as I can hope for when I'm flatting.

If he doesn't bet Turn, I feel pretty good about my hand, and I'm thinking about betting for value. Maybe wrongfully so, but that's how I feel.

If he bet's Turn, I think he can have some draws that I beat like QJ, JT (of course we block J), some AxS, maybe KTs. Other than that I'm beat.

The turn bet gets me nervous of course. I'm hoping for a showdown without putting more money on the Pot. and that's why I don't like the way that I played. I find it hard to fold toppair/goodkicker on the turn, but if the J doesn't come on the River, I'll have to fold...



Ok, didn't though of that. I think I'm folding.

I guess, it's a flat in position if you know villain's style and how he plays it. With no info on villain I prefer to fold and wait to have some input on him before playing him on marginal spots

I think it's wrong to assume QJ, J10 and K10 are in ANY villans utg range when you have no info. Always assume a very tight range until they prove otherwise. That's just standard imo. That being said KJo or even suited plays terribly against that range weather you flat or 3 bet.

Even 6-handed? QJs, JTs, KTs it's not on his open-raise range?

When I coach students, I teach them that they should think of their advantages and disadvantages before continuing with the hand.

The advantages of poker are: 1) card advantage; 2) position; 3) initiative; 4) stack advantage or leverage; and 5) skill advantage.

Here looking at it from this perspective you have:

1) a card disadvantage. An unknown range for that spot is about 14%. When you don't have enough hands to develop a read on his range, I treat everyone according to the average. Here the average open range is 14%. A card advantage would mean having a hand in the top 1/2 of villain's range. The top 7% would be roughly 77+ and AJ+.

2) A position advantage.

3) Initiative disadvantage when you call. 3 betting would give you the initiative advantage.

4) Stack advantage or leverage advantage. This is not about who has the larger stack, although sometimes this is part of it. It is more about being able to pressure someone's stack at some point of the hand. Here you are at a disadvantage to call. What this really gets down to is how hard can you make his life if he flops top pair. Will he have difficulty calling down if you pressure him. With your stack he is supposed to call you down with top pair.

You are a bit deep to shove, but being able to put in the last bet gives you an advantage here.

5) Skill advantage. This is still unknown.

So in total, calling here gives you 1 advantage, 3 disadvantages and 1 unknown. 3 betting would at least create a 2/2/1 comparison.

So now looking at that context you should see your best choices here are 3bet or fold and calling is the worst of the options. Also understanding that 3 betting here is a bluff.

Is this a good spot to bluff: actually no. The player is opening from a tighter range, he is unknown, you are too deep to shove, but it would be a perfect stack for him to 4bet shove on you handcuffing alot of your range. That doesn't mean I will have no bluffs from here, but I would be careful about how many I put in my range and which hands I choose to put in my range. With these stacks since you can't really call with suited AXs hands due to the poor implied odds, I would tend to use them with the blockers.

The flop is fairly standard. The turn is interesting. Calling that bet crosses a pot commitment threshhold. I'm wondering what you would do if the river was a blank, say the 5s. Are you still happy calling off the river? If not, maybe you should be re-considering the call on the turn. I don't know. Clearly if he 3 barrels and the river is a blank, your hand has mostly been reduced to a bluff catcher. If he bluffs a balanced range 2:1 value:bluffs, you should be ok, but in micro stakes games average player doesn't tend to bluff a balanced range on the river.

Thank you everyone for the feedback.

I do feel like I've played this hand very poorly and it was very clear during the hand that I've put myself in a very awkward spot, which a lot of the time means that in fact it was badly played.

Idk about those range % though, I feel like it's higher than 14%, since that is a normal open range for fullring UTG position I would say. UTG position in 6-handed it's equivalent to MP1 in fullring. I would say he should be opening like 20/21%, maybe going a little higher depending on BTN and BB.

But I do agree that I'm still in card disadvantage and stack disadvantage. Will be more aware next session for sure.

These are the standard % for positions on ranges players are supposed to have:

EP1 - 9%
EP2 - 11%
EP3 - 12%
MP1 - 14%
MP2 - 16%
MP3 - 20%
CO - 25%* (35%)
BTN - 33%* (47%)

The last 2 are asterisked since this is the "math" answer, but due to the great position, these ranges should be higher. The number in the parenthesis is my recommendation for standard range. Basically, tight players will be near the "math" answer, standard players near my recommendation and loose players may have as much as ATC there.

And correcting my above post, the villain is in MP2 and not MP1 so his range should be 16% for a standard player. So now we are looking at adding 66 and ATs or KQs depending.

Of course, LAGs will have more hands in their range, but tight players will have less. A good LAG may have about 20% or maybe a touch over and tight player is usually around 10%ish here. Some nits are even tighter. The average is about 15% - 16% if you check the total population in your HUD.